Page 5 | Why is ND a common excuse for poor behaviour now?

PonderingCarefully · 2025-04-07T14:23:52+00:00

To be clear, this isn't a bashing thread as I'm generally interested in views and reasonings. Posting here for traffic really. I get ND is a huge thing now and way more people are being vocal about it being accepted in society. This i am in favour of but.... so often now, especially on MN/SM, you see people excusing or questioning if poor behaviour is a result of undiagnosed ND. For example, a partner withdrawing/saying hurtful things would usually be seen as abuse now it's are they on the spectrum? A friend who's taking advantage is no longer seen as a entitled CF but is said to need more patience incase they are ND. Why is this? Is it now a society norm that you actually need to feel quilted into accepting this behaviour just incase there's something undiagnosed at play? Are we now going to start seeing abusers and bully's in a new light of "maybe it's not their fault" now?

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:45

Itsoneofthose · 08/04/2025 09:44

Absolutely and so they should be. It’s extremely important that anyone who is even remotely vulnerable in any way in society is protected and bullying is completely unacceptable. But that’s not really what’s being discussed. I think the difficulty is, for examples sake, is when a ND person also has an awful awful personality (yes both can co-exist) and can never be challenged on poor behaviour towards others because of ND diagnosis without the whistleblower being accused of being a discriminatory hitler sympathiser. It’s a pickle.

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An awful awful personality. Define that please as funnily enough I’ve never ever come across a ND with such a personality.

Funny that you come across so many and you know for certain they are ND

Original poster

PonderingCarefully · 08/04/2025 09:45

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:42

That absolutely isn’t what you said and noGoogle doesn’t.

So data please.

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Google your own data and receipts FGS.

OP posts:

Itsoneofthose · 08/04/2025 09:44

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:24

Is it though? The numbers of bullying and being victims of crime are massive for ND people , it’s well known. It seems to be ok to mock and bully ND people for not fitting the norm and being different. It happens so much without being pulled up and nearly all ND people experience it.

Disability laws are there for a reason.

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Absolutely and so they should be. It’s extremely important that anyone who is even remotely vulnerable in any way in society is protected and bullying is completely unacceptable. But that’s not really what’s being discussed. I think the difficulty is, for examples sake, is when a ND person also has an awful awful personality (yes both can co-exist) and can never be challenged on poor behaviour towards others because of ND diagnosis without the whistleblower being accused of being a discriminatory hitler sympathiser. It’s a pickle.

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:42

PonderingCarefully · 08/04/2025 09:39

Here's one

A quick Google will bring up several articles and findings.

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That absolutely isn’t what you said and noGoogle doesn’t.

So data please.

Mahanii · 08/04/2025 09:41

Over the course of my life, I have been:
Permanently excluded from school
Arrested multiple times
Sacked from jobs
Sucked into abusive relationships

You would never know this if I didn't tell you. I work in a professional job, I raise children alone, I run a household, and I do those 3 things really well. To receive a diagnosis of a neurodivergent condition as an adult was sheer, utter, relief. I'm not a sociopath or a deviant, I just had an undiagnosed, unmanaged condition. Am I making excuses for my poor behaviour?

Original poster

PonderingCarefully · 08/04/2025 09:39

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:33

Link to data please.

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Here's one

A quick Google will bring up several articles and findings.

OP posts:

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:36

As it’s well known ND are more likely to be victims of crime.

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:33

PonderingCarefully · 08/04/2025 09:31

There is also an argument for there being a rise in crimes where the main defence is suspected ND.

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Link to data please.

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:33

IrritatedEarthling · 08/04/2025 09:29

I think that yes a lot of people see the world through very different eyes, but the trick to life for a big chunk of these people (not talking about learning disables) is to nevertheless learn to function in society. This is what good parenting used to be about. Failing at that has always been a problem for society.

“These people”

That is abelist talk, you can’t learn your way out of ND. The same as any disability. Reasonable adjustments are crucial but a battle to get.

Define function. Masking is hugely damaging.It nearly killed my daughter.

Original poster

PonderingCarefully · 08/04/2025 09:31

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:24

Is it though? The numbers of bullying and being victims of crime are massive for ND people , it’s well known. It seems to be ok to mock and bully ND people for not fitting the norm and being different. It happens so much without being pulled up and nearly all ND people experience it.

Disability laws are there for a reason.

Show quote history

There is also an argument for there being a rise in crimes where the main defence is suspected ND.

OP posts:

IrritatedEarthling · 08/04/2025 09:29

I think that yes a lot of people see the world through very different eyes, but the trick to life for a big chunk of these people (not talking about learning disables) is to nevertheless learn to function in society. This is what good parenting used to be about. Failing at that has always been a problem for society.

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:26

Themagicfarawaytreeismyfav · 08/04/2025 09:22

Two out of my four dc are ND and i suspect i may also be ( im not diagnosed though). I have always raised them to be polite and respectful and they know that i will not tolerate bad behaviour and i can tell the difference between them struggling with the ND and simply behaving badly. I think to many these days use ND as an excuse for not parenting properly and poorly raised children.

Disregulation and overwhelm is often seen as bad behaviour. It isnt. If it is to be avoided reasonable adjustments are crucial but it is a massive battle to get any anywhere.

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:24

Itsoneofthose · 08/04/2025 09:17

It’s allowed to ‘pull up’ a NT persons behaviour though, without being seen as a discriminatory scum bag.

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Is it though? The numbers of bullying and being victims of crime are massive for ND people , it’s well known. It seems to be ok to mock and bully ND people for not fitting the norm and being different. It happens so much without being pulled up and nearly all ND people experience it.

Disability laws are there for a reason.

Themagicfarawaytreeismyfav · 08/04/2025 09:22

Two out of my four dc are ND and i suspect i may also be ( im not diagnosed though). I have always raised them to be polite and respectful and they know that i will not tolerate bad behaviour and i can tell the difference between them struggling with the ND and simply behaving badly. I think to many these days use ND as an excuse for not parenting properly and poorly raised children.

Itsoneofthose · 08/04/2025 09:17

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:14

New movement of labelling!!!Do you mean better diagnostics with women and girls finally getting the diagnosis they deserve and have a right to.

You know what has it occurred to you that maybe NT behaviour is often less than desirable and warrants being pulled up.

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It’s allowed to ‘pull up’ a NT persons behaviour though, without being seen as a discriminatory scum bag.

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:14

PonderingCarefully · 08/04/2025 09:07

I agree with everything you say. I do have an open mind and is why I actually started this thread in the first place, to gain a better understanding of why. It's definitly not a case of a one size fits all subject or a all or none basis.

It just concerns me that a huge number of people, whether ND or NT, are now being told/advised to be more patient and tolerant to ALL poor behaviour incase the perpetrator is ND. Things like being followed home, being isolated or verbally abused by a partner, being assaulted, taking on another person's mental/physical load to the brink of a breakdown... all of which have been threads on here and ALL of them have had many comments saying "well have you considered they may be undiagnosed ND".

Of course in some cases this is a valid response but is it really the case for all? Is acceptance and understanding of ND only ever going to be achieved by conditioning society to be more tolerant to abuse and poor behaviour from other adults?

Is it really going to be 2 sides of a coin where on 1 side we live in fear with our pitchforks or the other side where all abuse, all crime and all poor behaviour has to be tolerated with the defense of a possibility of undiagnosed ND? Isn't that just building a bigger and harder fight against the ALL ND should then be treated with caution and as potential criminals argument? Surely this new movement of labelling is more damaging to the acceptance of these disabilities than maintaining boundaries and opening discussions about poor behaviour.

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New movement of labelling!!!Do you mean better diagnostics with women and girls finally getting the diagnosis they deserve and have a right to.

You know what has it occurred to you that maybe NT behaviour is often less than desirable and warrants being pulled up.

Itsoneofthose · 08/04/2025 09:10

@PonderingCarefully yup, this very thing is happening at work. A destructive, obnoxious, insulting colleague has a disclaimer on the end of her email declaring her disability. People are now unable to react to her behaviour without being deemed discriminatory. I can’t see how her issues are attributed to adhd, it’s her personality. Teasing the two apart is difficult.

Original poster

PonderingCarefully · 08/04/2025 09:07

2JFDIYOLO · 08/04/2025 08:00

I think it likely that autism and ADHD are far more prevalent than is currently realised.

Our world is designed for neurotypical people. The way schooling and work are designed is a struggle for ND people.

As is social life. Many ND people find friendships and relationships difficult to navigate and their approach and behaviours may not match others'.

Many issues may well stem from neurodivergence, whether recognised or not.

Only very recently, experts were confidently asserting that autism & ADHD only affected boys. = 51% of the planet ignored, and a huge cohort of women and girls undiagnosed and unsupported. So many only being recognised later in life.

Partly because the world isn't designed for them, it's likely a large sector of the prison population is ND. If everyone going into youth custody and prison were effectively assessed I'm convinced many more would be identified, which is a first step to understanding and supporting.

It gets criticised here but yes I do think we should be open to the possibility that behaviour issues may - MAY - have neurodivergence at their core and it's wise to consider the possibility. To keep an open mind.

Because ND people can be helped and supported to understand and live in a world that is overwhelming.

And NT people can be helped and supported to understand their parent, partner, friend, colleague, child, pupil etc may struggle to achieve that, and have greater insight into WHY things are happening.

If neurodivergence can be ruled out, then whatever's left is their personality, upbringing, education, life experience and sometimes conscious choice of behaviour in play. Then you can decide if you are prepared to accept that. Or do something about it.

So yes, though it can cause a knee jerk reaction in many people, like OP, I think raising the question, having the conversation and keeping an open mind about the possibility are valuable.

And it's possible to be ND and nasty - or ND and lovely.

Edited

I agree with everything you say. I do have an open mind and is why I actually started this thread in the first place, to gain a better understanding of why. It's definitly not a case of a one size fits all subject or a all or none basis.

It just concerns me that a huge number of people, whether ND or NT, are now being told/advised to be more patient and tolerant to ALL poor behaviour incase the perpetrator is ND. Things like being followed home, being isolated or verbally abused by a partner, being assaulted, taking on another person's mental/physical load to the brink of a breakdown... all of which have been threads on here and ALL of them have had many comments saying "well have you considered they may be undiagnosed ND".

Of course in some cases this is a valid response but is it really the case for all? Is acceptance and understanding of ND only ever going to be achieved by conditioning society to be more tolerant to abuse and poor behaviour from other adults?

Is it really going to be 2 sides of a coin where on 1 side we live in fear with our pitchforks or the other side where all abuse, all crime and all poor behaviour has to be tolerated with the defense of a possibility of undiagnosed ND? Isn't that just building a bigger and harder fight against the ALL ND should then be treated with caution and as potential criminals argument? Surely this new movement of labelling is more damaging to the acceptance of these disabilities than maintaining boundaries and opening discussions about poor behaviour.

OP posts:

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:06

NC28 · 08/04/2025 09:02

These threads always go the same way, don’t they?

You cannot broach the subject of ND (unless it’s in the context of asking about EHCPs or similar) without being accused of being some sort of tyrant who hates disabled people and wants to hunt people with autism out of society.

You can start a topic on just about anything, but not this. People will report the thread because others have a different opinion and they can’t handle it? I can only imagine what these folk are like in real life.

Yes, there are many genuine cases of ND who warrant diagnosis, adjustments at work/school and access to support. There are also bullshitters who want to “self-identify” as being ND because they get a bit anxious in a crowd. And there are parents desperate to label their kid as being ND to relieve themselves of guilt for not raising them properly when they’re being hauled into school to be told their child is out of control.

All of these things are true.

You could say the same with any disability but it’s funny it’s always autism.

NC28 · 08/04/2025 09:02

These threads always go the same way, don’t they?

You cannot broach the subject of ND (unless it’s in the context of asking about EHCPs or similar) without being accused of being some sort of tyrant who hates disabled people and wants to hunt people with autism out of society.

You can start a topic on just about anything, but not this. People will report the thread because others have a different opinion and they can’t handle it? I can only imagine what these folk are like in real life.

Yes, there are many genuine cases of ND who warrant diagnosis, adjustments at work/school and access to support. There are also bullshitters who want to “self-identify” as being ND because they get a bit anxious in a crowd. And there are parents desperate to label their kid as being ND to relieve themselves of guilt for not raising them properly when they’re being hauled into school to be told their child is out of control.

All of these things are true.

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 09:01

Newmumhere40 · 08/04/2025 07:43

You are right. Yes people are ND but there are most certainly those who claim it to avoid work/blame for their actions/physical abuse etc.

As a teacher, the amount of parents who blame undiagnosed ND for their child's behaviour is staggering and extremely worrying, not least for that child.

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Your ignorance as regards ND and the difficulties for children considering you’re a teacher is a big concern .

Jud3 · 08/04/2025 08:58

Superhansrantowindsor · 08/04/2025 08:30

I teach many ND children. The way parents raise these children varies enormously.
in adults the trend for self diagnosis is ridiculous and makes life harder for others.

It really doesn’t and self diagnosis is needed as waits are so long. Unis are recognising this and opening up support to those not yet diagnosed but on lists.

GetMeOutOfMeta · 08/04/2025 08:35

I also think the pathologising of normal conditions is a huge issue that can be accentuated by the lack of mental health support currently available. As an example I have CPTSD but haven't been able to access proper support for it. I am now medicated for an anxiety disorder that is presenting with high blood pressure which is a threat to my health. I was on a waiting list for nearly a year to see someone and ended up with someone with a counselling course telling me to do CBT for 6 sessions, which isn't enough. I have had CBT before but no one asked if it worked. I went from seeing a psychotherapist to a counsellor and had to wait a year for that and now can't access more because apparently I didn't cooperate because I didn't agree it would help.

It's a tangent from ADHD but I do think people with mental health issues are branching out into whatever support they can find because of the lack of any central support.

Superhansrantowindsor · 08/04/2025 08:30

I teach many ND children. The way parents raise these children varies enormously.
in adults the trend for self diagnosis is ridiculous and makes life harder for others.

Ilovetowander · 08/04/2025 08:26

The issue with the use of ND as an excuse is that there is an assumption by those who use it that it is unchallengeable. Many not just those who use the term to excuse poor behaviour feel they can’t challenge poor behaviour by those who use the ND label as they are being discriminatory. The impact on those who don’t use such a label in some cases is unreasonable, people should not have to put up with poor behaviour. I accept there are some cases where it is a obvious that some has a condition that can’t be controlled but theses are exceptions.