Why is ND a common excuse for poor behaviour now?

I think that comes from both “sides”, so to speak. Have seen plenty of posters who will not entertain for one second that some parents don’t exploit their child’s apparent issues, that some aren’t desperate for diagnosis to absolve them of parenting, that some people don’t use their diagnosis to benefit themselves. Perhaps people with no insight into ND can be arrogant about it, and those who do can often have tunnel vision based on their own experience only.

There’s no black and white, IMO. Plenty of genuine people with genuine issues, a whole spectrum of severity, plenty of parents who do their best for their children, plenty of parents who use “he can’t help screaming at you, he’s got ADHD”, plenty of people exaggerating their issues. They all exist, IMO.

Part of the problem on here is that many of these ‘opinions’ are based on total and utter ignorance of the topic, and those people are so unbelievably arrogant that they refuse to take on board information provided by those that a) have lived experience and/or b) have a lot more knowledge about the topic than they do. It happens every week on here. It’s incredibly tiresome.

Exactly.

The word “ableist” is churned out whenever anyone ever mentions ND. “I’ve reported this thread” always shows up in the comments too. If anyone dares have an opinion outside of what these people deem to be the right one, they come at you. 🙄

And some people use suspected undiagnosed ND as an excuse.

As with anyone, NT/ND, it’s the same, people make decisions based on a person’s “good” traits outweighing the “bad.

Ours teens both have NT mates and ND mates, and NT teens they can’t stand and ND teens they can’t stand.

It’s not the neuro bit that they decide on it’s the person.

But this simply is not true for some ND people. Impulsivity is a significant trait in adhd. As is emotional disregulation. So yes “poor” behaviour as NTs might say, but always followed by sincere apologies and remorse. A person with a shit personality does not do the intense “review self, regret behaviour, apologise copiously, strategise to do better” that makes up a portion of an ADhd persons life.

Definitely OP! Friends kid was a little sh&t with few boundaries, and ND was muttered quite a lot but they tried to get a diagnosis to no avail… things came to a head at Secondary and with the help of school they started to actually parent him and he’s like a different person.
I volunteer somewhere where there are genuinely a lot of ND kids and it does them a disservice when people use that as an excuse for their badly behaved children.

Are people not allowed to discuss or debate, or have a right to any opinions any more?

Mumsnet's wilful 'pushback' of not deleting ableist and discriminatory threads such as these will ultimately be it's downfall. How long does MNHQ think it will get away with letting disability discrimination stand, before the UK media will ask it's watchers and readers, 'Should Mumsnet be forced to be shutdown for allowing discrimination of disabled people to proliferate it's site?'

I'm not dismissing, I'm saying it's different. It's difficult to show difference without comparing 🤷‍♀️

Then stop comparing. It’s really that simple.

To advocate for your child and their needs you do not need to dismiss the experience of others that might have lower support needs. If they have been diagnosed they have met the diagnostic criteria of being significantly impacted by their symptoms. The word ‘mild’ therefore makes little sense in accurately describing that.You do not need to foist that onto others to advocate for your child and explain their needs.

FWIW I agree with the notion that there is a need for a ‘profoundly autistic’ sub category so those with very high care needs are more visible and perhaps any additional funding streams could be directed there.

I also really hope a lot more research is conducted on that category of autistic people, because they are even more excluded from research than girls and women are. You can’t extrapolate results of a lot of research to categories that weren’t included in the first place.

I don’t wish to argue as it never ends well so this will be my final post on this thread.

I agree and when people talk about the autism community
They are not talking about one that includes my son he belongs to a different community two days into easter its as well as can be expected 🤣
Thsnkfully we have a reasonable amount of respite now
It took years to get though.

Because you're comparing apples and oranges and when services, adjustments and the general interpretation of autism doesn't represent your child it matters.

Part of the reason families and professionals are asking for profound autism to be brought in is so this group is represented fully and have their needs met. Often parents/ carers of these people are told quite abruptly to shut up or that a nt can't speak for an nd etc. In reality a person with autism who is able to advocate for themselves and articulate their wants, needs etc has nothing in common with people like my son. Infact I find it quite arrogant that they assume to know about their lives when they have no idea of their difficulties or how they perceive them as they can't even communicate that themselves. The caregiver however who advocates for them in real life, looks after them, loves them and knows them does.

Agreed

I'm now a big advocate for splitting the autism dx in the dsm again so people with profound autism are separated because they're needs and life are so vastly different to bulk of nd people.

Agreed, your son's needs and experiences are very different from my more high functioning (or whatever you want to call it) daughter's. They may be on the same spectrum, but in very different places and it would be useful to have some widely understood and agreed upon language to express that. Equally someone up thread said their husband is a teacher and is autistic. When I hear things like that, I must admit to feeling confused. How can you have a communication disorder with sensory issues and work in noisy communication centered job being in a room full of people all day?

Hi, yes I follow the council for severe autism and I'm on a few pages for families like ours. I find the general autism pages just don't fit for us and it's good to have people that get it and discuss things that apply to our lives. It's a million miles away from what some people experience and I find it really sad.

I hope the Easter hols go OK for you x

you just cant compare children like my son and yours with others on the spectrum

And yet, people do, all day, every day, to minimise and dismiss the experiences of other people that also actually have a diagnosis.
How about we all just stop comparing altogether. It does not help anyone or solve anything.

Completley agree ,you just cant compare children like my son and yours with others on the spectrum
I dont know if you are a member of the same facebook severe and profound autism group as me
Its an Americsn one and there is talks that some states are setting up councils for profound autism.

Not everyone can speak. There are many people with autism who are non verbal. They may use aac for communication but for the majority of users their communication is usual about getting their needs met. If they are communicating their opinion they will have really thought about it and then thought about how they are going to communicate that (quite difficult with picture exchange unless they have been given swears/ insults).

In regards to people not going to places because their disability, my ds has severe autism, he's the size of a medium man, he flaps and vocalises or uses echolalia which cannot be controlled. I will always take him to places he wants to goto, he has as much right to go as anyone else. I will however always try to take him to a relaxed session/ performance if they're available. Some venues I know of have stopped their relaxed sessions because their being used by people for cheap tickets or to allow them to bring their babies when they would otherwise not be welcomed (theatre etc). He isn't violent, won't throw things and is able to move out of people's way.

The increase in nd dx has changed what autism is seen as and that is a big negative for our family. We now have to stress severe or use ld (which isn't actually diagnosed but gets the point across). I'm now a big advocate for splitting the autism dx in the dsm again so people with profound autism are separated because they're needs and life are so vastly different to bulk of nd people.

Nd or autism now doesn't really mean much as so many people have a dx and yes I think it is used as an excuse for poor behaviour.

ND people need boundaries for their own mental health and this is really misunderstood at the moment. Needs will constantly be unmet without boundaries and the boundaries need to be appropriate to the underlying need, eg ability to be accepted by others in order to have relationships, recognising that putting hands in a fire is dangerous, kicking an adult because they don’t immediately provide something wanted, all roads lead to emotional upset and can be addressed very early on.

Does it matter if people use ND as the reason?

Being a knob is being a knob.

If parents use it as an excuse all it will do is contribute to the social alienation of kids who only need a small amount of understanding because people will get to the position that they have been expected so many times to excuse terrible behaviour they just stop trying.
Same with adults, someone asks you out, say, they inform you at some point they have ADHD you will run a mile and think no I am not going to just accept whatever I have to, because you know ND.

It is in everyone’s interest that ND isn’t used as a behavioural excuse.

Everyone has the ability to think before they speak, think before they act.

Because so many people don't want to take responsibility for their shitty behaviour. It's easier to say that they are ND. I actually see this on Mumsnet quite a bit. Someone is rude to you? They must have dementia/be on the autistic spectrum. More likely than not,they are just rude.

If people have told you that they find you "too direct", "too honest" and aggressive, you can't just shrug your shoulders and say "I'm not "too" anything, you just lack tolerance". That sounds like your behaviour is negatively affecting others, and regardless of neurotype, we all have a responsibility not to let our behaviour impact negatively on others.

This is offensive to me. I have an nhs adhd diagnosis late 50s. My “bad behaviour” may appear so to you because you lack tolerance, joy in life, openness, or respect for human emotions.
Ive had a lifetime of being told I’m “too direct”, “too honest”, “over emotional”, “lazy”, “inconsistent”, “unreliable”, “failed to life up to my potential”, “too loud”, “too quiet”, “too dominant”, “aggressive” blah bloody blah. Try and imagine the relief at finding out im not “too…” anything.