Why is ND a common excuse for poor behaviour now?

I have never ever once come across someone saying 'OP, do you think your child is ND?' and disagreed with it. Never.

What's happening, is the posts being posted are triggering because they highlight ONLY difficult behaviour the poster is experiencing.

Nearly every time, someone will be frustrated that bad behaviour is being aligned with autism. It is not what's happening. I'm in most these parenting threads.

What's happening, is experienced parents living this are offering support and encouraging people to stop believing in stereotypes and understand where some difficult behaviour is coming from; that there are cues in their post to Neurodivergence. Then how to help manage it and turn it around for a better life for everyone.

I have personal lived experience with NT abusive adults. I also have an Autistic/PDA child. I am NT. Other parent ND.

Its not ,but it csn be a big part of it when someone cant communicate in any meaningful way at all

They use three levels in America
So people diagnosed with level 1 autism would require minimal support and are usually sble to care for themselves have relationships ,have children etc
People disgnosed with level 2 autism would ususlly need moderste support but can often fuction well with that support
And those disgnosd with level 3 would need full 1:1 support at all times and can only function in a very limited capacity
Obviously ,its not a perfect tool and i imagine some people will fall between levels.

Why is being verbal the only thing being focused on as severe on MN?

Going by the criteria below my daughter is most definitely the most severe and she’s verbal. Her siblings can fluctuate and can become non verbal. You can’t categorise autism.

In my experience, those with genuine autism or adhd, are very quiet about it. They don’t ever use it as an excuse and will mask to the point of making themselves ill.
I absolutely see it on threads though “maybe that person is nd”. I think people need a reason to explain behaviour they do not understand. It’s insulting for those who are actually nd.

I have rarely or never seen ND used as an excuse for bad behaviour: possibly by defence lawyers in some criminal cases, but they will bring up anything that is available.

Assuming that you mean real bad behaviour and are not classing inability to work full-time, need for adaptations or lack of so-called 'resilience' as bad behaviour.

By contrast, I have often seen 'I was under stress' used as an excuse for bad behaviour.

It a completely fair. Both have disabilities that need reasonable adjustments. One is hidden and one isn’t.

That’s not a fair comparison, obviously.

I’m no expert but I’d imagine it would need more than two levels. Like you say - people out there are independent and working, then there are non-verbal people who are totally reliant on full care. Then all the people who fall somewhere in the middle.

This is spot on. Building an identity that centres around neurodiversity definitely leads to that kind of learned helplessness. I think the relative anonymity of "neurodivergent" contributes to that - whereas previously people would have said "I find X and X challenging because I have ADHD", and people can suggest workarounds and techniques, it's now "I'm neurodivergent" - there's so many different "flavours" of neurodivergent that no one can suggest something that may help, so nothing changes.

The opening post certainly does feel goady to me. Such lack of awareness on this thread.

This discussion is however a good one to have and I welcome debating posts, if the intent is to debate of course.

I participate in parenting threads primarily as I have experience. I will regularly suggest ND as an explanation. I know I'm usually right.

To answer, parents in this situation tend to pick up on cues within posts that other people won't get, receive or resonate with.

There's significant misinformation and lack of awareness. For example, the overwhelming inheritance rate. A poster will almost always declare further along that a close family member is ND. Most people are unaware of this heritability factor.

There's a political agenda underway utilising smoke and mirrors nonsense such as suggesting people are being ' over diagnosed '. No,they aren't. But it's a bit like 'they're eating the cats and dogs'. The public must find a scapegoat.

Reality is, people are being MIS diagnosed more likely with things such as ' borderline personality disorder ', depressed and anxiety, when really they needed an Autism assessment. But a thorough NICE approved assessment isn't easy to access anymore. And service provision is actually being obliterated.

So, people will be Autistic and unable to access assessment which you will use to further justify your own need to believe this story being fed to you. 'oh everyone's self diagnosing '. Personally, I didn't ever meet anyone who suspected they're ND and then myself thought they were wrong on that suspicion. Not a single one.

The truth is - the ND population is significant. ND people are having children and those children are likely all going to be ND. The public clearly does not like this.

People can be ND and also be dicks. As can NT people. This post, the media and others are an attempt to over simplify something. I never see posts such as ' my husband hits me ' and a reply such as ' is he Autistic '. Never.

ND behaviour will be difficult quite often for NT people living in an NT world with fixed social rules and quite bizarre approaches to schooling as one example. People are being set up to be difficult.

I think personality traits are now medicalised/diagnosed a lot. Kids hear it and then identify something and build their whole identity around it. A friend of DS(7) tells everyone "I have anger issues" as if he can't possibly be expected to keep calm or discuss things or compromise when he doesn't get his way.

I think there can (not always, not everyone) be times when having a label then leads to a learned helplessness in some situations that further compounds the issues. (Eg. "I can't work because I have anxiety" rather than "I get anxious sometimes, particularly around interview situations". I think ADHD is another area that people are really making the central pillar to their identity, and have a couple of friends who were diagnosed in their 40s who now say "I can't do X because of my ADHD" whereas they probably might've given it a go pre-diagnosis. Again, not all, not everyone, not always.

I thought this may help the conversation. Not only does it show the breakdown of how the levels are assigned in the dsm, it also shows how the dx has changed over time (autism specific).

Again some levels of need in some peoole remain high at all times and do not fluctuate you can only talk about your own experience of autsm
As can i and my sons needs dont fluctuate and remain high at all times

The different levels refer to need which can fluctuate and absolutely does not rely on whether somebody is verbal or not.There is no severity level as that is impossible to measure.

And the inconveniences it brings. You can’t just switch a disability off.

There is zero tolerance or understanding of their disability.

The current dsm does have different levels to assign to diagnosis but they don't seem to be used much. Profound autism will hopefully be included in the next dsm . My preference would be for descriptors that define the severity of the autism and the severity of mental health needs that goes with (if any) as many people don't seem to get their mh addressed. Eg for my son profound/ severe autism/ no mh. For another low level autism (worded however) with sever mental health needs (so someone who is verbal, intelligent, capable but is suicidal). You could add in sensory needs too. I think this would help people ge their needs met too however they present as it would be harder for professionals/ services to ignore.

I dunno. I think what the OP was doing here was the opposite. Seems they're sticking up for ND by saying stop blaming bad behaviour on being ND. Sometimes people are just dicks then try to say it's because they have ND when being ND does NOT make you a dick.

So you are in effect saying physical disabilities you can see can’t help it but hidden disabilities can and that is abelist.

You are criticising their disability. You don’t criticise wheelchair users for being in the way.

This has come up several times since I've been in MN. But how would it work? Posters (different older thread) have said there should be 2 levels. But I and I'm sure many others won't fit into either. I'm nothing like friends of mine who work and are independent.

That’s fair too.

Someone, I think on this thread, said they thought there should be diagnosis but then a sub-diagnosis. So someone would be diagnosed with autism, but then be further diagnosed into a category that gave more insight into how they were affected. The spectrum is so wide that it maybe contributes to some of the prejudice and poorly informed views you see.

@NC28 Yes, I agree with that.
There are also some very ableist people on here who believe they can decide the level to which someone is impacted by a ND diagnosis either through a computer screen or from observing someone for a few hours here and there. They also take great pleasure in trying to wind up those who are ND to get a reaction so they be ‘proved right’. Those are the people that ruin every single thread that crops up.

I think it reflects an attempt at trying to understand WHY people behave the way they do.

Of course you can just say “It’s their fault and they’re a bad person” like we used to in ‘the good old days’ but it doesn’t really get you anywhere or change anything does it?

Considering the reasons for poor behaviour and being empathetic is more taxing on the brain, so people who don’t enjoy thinking or find it difficult may rail against this approach.

Trying to understand each other, even those who behave badly, does no harm to anyone and actually often results in a lot of good.

Victims / survivors of bullying for example may not be the right people to be doing this thinking, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done, and mumsnet is a good place to throw around different ideas and possibilities.