To think it doesn't always start at home?

You think it's awful for a 3 year-old to sit on their parent's knee? Because that's what the poster said. Nobody is suggesting a 3yo should stand on publuc transport, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

Yes it begins at home in the vast majority of cases imo. I've been a teacher for decades and was a supply teacher for a while and experienced plenty of shocking behaviour. I now work in a lovely girls' grammar school with very few behaviour problems. I will never go back to a school with difficult behaviour. I'm done with tolerating it. Nobody should have to put up with contempt, disrespect and bullying in the workplace.

I would not ask a three year to move but I was as was raised a similiar way to posture you quote. I think it did teach me to respect others.

I agree it is not purely down to the home environment. The area a child grow up can have a big effect on their behaviour.

A three year old should sit on the parent’s knee.

When I was that age, in the late 80s and early 90s, I wouldn’t have dared speak to a teacher or any adult that way. I’d have been scared to death of facing my mum, who would’ve been ashamed that I’d behaved that way.

Completely different now. A lot of parents think the sun shines out of their kid’s arse.

I wouldn’t be a teacher in secondary school for all the riches in the world.

I left my last school nearly 25 years ago and pupils there behaved like that.

When I was a child - as @Maray has said - a 3 yr old would be expected to sit on their parent's knee.

I lived and worked in Fife. On social occasions, when people asked where I worked and I replied that I was a teacher, I'd get men in particular boasting about playing 'pranks' on their teachers and making them cry.

It definitely starts at home.

Absolutely a three year old should take priority- they are far less able to stand/ more at risk of losing their balance/ hurting themselves than an able bodied adult. I would never expect a small child to give up their seat for me- how awful!!

Well then it’s got nothing to do with child-adult hierarchy has it? The issue is clearly with the mother not wanting to be made uncomfortable (with a child on her knee) and not the 3 year olds lack of manners/ failure to be taught that adult’s (lesser) needs come first above hers. Presumably mum would have been more willing if there was someone else who actually needed the seat.

My kids were at the cinema watching the Minecraft movie together a few days ago and a whole row of teens had to get thrown out for shouting and spoiling the movie for everyone else, throwing bags of popcorn around and full water bottles (one hit a smaller child)

Dc said the abuse the staff got was terrible for telling them to leave. They offered to help clear up at the end of the movie and the staff replied that they appreciated the offer but they have this to deal with for the next month due to some TikTok trend around the Minecraft movie.

A few of the parents of the children who were thrown out were demanding a refund for their children's tickets when my lot were leaving

It starts at home. I’ve never heard a parent raise their voice to their child when out yet and I seem to make most kids jump out their skin if I shout at mine to stop doing something. I want my kids to have a healthy fear of the consequences at home if they disrespect a teacher at school but I suspect I am in the minority.

Yep it’s starts at home .

Too large a school, and kids trying to be “cool”.
Poor program options for many teens. After the basic math/english (and there should be a function skill course available early on at secondary) trades should be available options from grade 10.

I think it is more complex than just "it starts at home." That most definitely plays a role but I know kids with nice parents who do care about their behaviour but still behave badly in school. As teenagers peers start to have more influence and parents less. So then there is the aspect of school culture. What we permit we promote. Too much poor behaviour is let slide by teachers who don't have good behaviour management skills. The more they get away with the more they try it on and the harder the good teachers have to work to maintain minimum standards.

In terms of peer influence it doesn't take many disruptive pupils to tip a class into chaos. Once a few are behaving like that others join in because they think it is fun, or safe because the more disruptive students will be the ones that get consequences, or because they want to be seen as cool or need to maintain their reputation etc etc.

As a secondary TA I work with multiple teachers and it is astonishing how differently the same class can behave with different teachers. It takes a lot of skill and experience to manage behaviour well and not all teachers have that skill. As it gets harder to recruit teachers, standards are slipping, and new teachers are coming in that really can't cut it. They last a few years then get burnt out and leave the profession to be replaced by the next unprepared young starter. It's not fair on them and it's not fair on the students who want to learn. SLT need to be more proactive about spotting teachers who are struggling with behaviour and supporting them to develop those skills.

I always think teachers would benefit from some time working as a TA before going into teaching. It's a great way to observe what does and does not work!

Also, pupils with extremely poor behaviour should not keep getting shuffled from one mainstream school to the next. It never works. For every difficult child moved on from our school we get a new one in their place. They need some specialist provision. Mainstream clearly isn't working for them and they definitely aren't helping things in the schools.

They did in my school, especially to supply teachers. The behaviour at my kids' secondary school is actually loads better than my school (both comps in deprived areas).

The immaturity of these little shits a lot of them learn it from their parents pampering/babying them but some copy other kids.
Then they think they can get away with everything because they're young. I had a child at 16 and moved out of the family home, only took one gap year before going back to college and was shocked at how disrespectful the other students were to the tutors. Non stop talking and then moaning about their "human rights" whenever the tutor asked them to be quiet or getting their mummies to complain lol

So even at college age it just gets worse 😂

Affluenza…

The Nigerian teacher was astounded that every pupil had access to a laptop in most lessons + a huge computer suite + huge HD TV screens in most classrooms. And yet the pupils didn't give a shit about any of it and often trashed the laptops.

Yep. My family have worked in developing countries and they would be delighted to receive the chance of a wonderful, free education . But in the West we have grown careless and take our freedom and privilege for granted.

(On a similar note one of my son’s classmates justifies the need to guzzle fizzy drinks constantly by being “allergic to water”. I kid you not. It makes me cringe to think what a person from sub-Saharan Africa would make of that.)

I do think certain people are raising children to be entitled so and sos. I say that as someone who has a child with complex needs who others would often mistakenly probably perceive to be “naughty” but I’m not talking about meltdowns etc - I’m talking about properly awful, obviously poor parenting. Like today for example - sat in a restaurant for lunch with my dc (older, 13 and 21) and at the table next to us there were 3 adults with 3 young dc, around 3-4 years old. All of them running around the table in circles, shrieking, in their bare feet (!) and not once did any of the adults either tell them to pipe down, sit down or stop. At all. It was horrendous. Kids having the time of their life, completely oblivious. And this wasn’t a fast food, cheap type place, not that that should make a difference but it was a standard type lunch place in Norwich. What kind of signal does that send to the kids? People have completely forgotten how to teach children to behave.

for an elderly person or pregnant woman etc.. definitely needs to move. But for a fit man in his 20s (an adult)? I personally would do with mine, but wouldn't bat an eyelid if another parent allowed their child to use a seat....

I've always been a lead by example person, even when my DC were young.
Grew up and stayed within the area all my life so friendship groups stayed pretty much the same.

It's not really until your DC start school and you meet others out of your own chosen circle that your eyes are opened.
You'd get DC at their schools, both primary and secondary that were carbon copies of their parents, some nice some absolutely awful and I'll admit just weren't who I'd have in my home.

I also spent a few years working in a primary school in the late 90's and behaviour had started swaying towards the I don't give a shite what my kid does way...
TBH the headteacher was so afraid of these parents they'd never pull them up..
It was pretty shameful looking back.

It seems to have continued on that path in areas now due to lack if parenting skills.
I won't use the word society as I'm pretty sure you can't blame all of society.

My GC is now 2 years old and for the last 8 months I've been looking after them on a regular basis while their parents are at work.

Both parents are pretty much on the same page, don't swear, shout, live quite happily together...although one does moan about the others clutter...but no arguing that type of relationship.

My time spent looking after them is literally spent with them.
DGC picks up and copies practically everything I do, always looking, learning and copying, I wipe their high chair they copy, tissue out of the box to wipe their nose, they copy, bashed my elbow on the door frame...(always remember there's a little one' even if there isn't)...
Ouchy...I'll hear "chy"...

It really has shown me exactly just how much behaviour is infact learned from the home and of those that a DC has around them.

I really hope my DGC headteacher will be a better person, and don't envy my DC standing at the school gates in future years waiting to collect DGC ...

I also wonder if well behaved DC will become punch bags for those that only know nasty behaviour caused by those parents that shout the loudest and blind eyes will be turned...I sincerely hope not.

Totally agree. Our adult DDs have never been verbally abusive to us or sworn at us. In fact, the didn't even swear in front of us until they were at university. But then DH and I very rarely swore in front of them when they were growing up.

Their 'being teenagers' absolutely didn't give them the right to be verbally rude, crude or offensive to us. It simply wasn't tolerated by either me or DH. They knew the sanctions for that type of behaviour would be very harsh, so they were wise enough to not even try it.