To think it doesn't always start at home?

When I went to a really rough London school in the 70’s we were all badly behaved for supply teachers. But the bad behaviour didn’t include talking to them in such a disrespectful manner, it was more talking too much, throwing things to each other etc. I think the reason for this is, that if we had behaved in the way the OP describes our parents would have been informed and we would have had a massive bollocking, and we were all scared of that.

@PaperSheet Some of the teenagers have never travelled by bus and don't know the etiquette.

I used the bus regularly with my DC and always offered my seat, like my mother taught me, DD always offers her seat to a person who is struggling, she learned from me.

If we had travelled by car, she may not think it was a thing.

We used to walk back a couple of stops so that the kids (from 2 to school age) got a seat at the back of the bus. Safest place is bums on seats. Yep, that applies for everyone, so some negotiation is needed for those less able, but I'd stand before making my kids stand. Sitting on a bus for safety does not make kids "entitled".

Coincidentally, youngest is now teacher training (science, secondary) and loves it... as she says, it's currently like grandkids - you can hand them back at the end of the lesson.

She certainly knows which schools she'd prefer and has landed a job in a good one, though we live in an area with generally lower behaviour issues.

Lack of hope? It definitely doesn’t come from that.

Do any of them, though?

I put parental controls on but a) it was really difficult and b) some of it is our router at home so I am not even sure if it works when mobile is using data / wifi etc and c) there’s just so much crap I think stuff still filters through… it’s also just normal telly/ads etc. so much is designed to shock and people are inured to stuff that we would have thought was cheeky or rude years ago. I’ve definitely seen it shift throughout my lifetime.

Perhaps, but it is parents who control (or should) access to the internet.

No, how has the school management allowed it get this far.

They should use harsh punishments from the off.

My DC school is not perfect, but it is strict on the rules, you use your phone, it is confiscated for 3 days, speaking to the teacher rudely will get you in isolation.

The school had local store managers in to discuss that hanging around intimidates some customers etc.

Children and teenagers are like sponges, if the general attitude around them is rudeness and destruction they'll follow.

I get some schools are more difficult, my school inner city was a jungle, though it had a massive turnaround in the later years when a new principal took over, again fantastic leadership turned it around.

One teacher alone cannot solve the problems that are rooted.

You can stay in denial if you want.

Why is my 12 yo god daughter less entitled to a seat than you?

As to the PP equating children to bags, you are literally the problem - your entitlement screams off the page.

Firstly, as a fellow teacher, I am sorry you have experienced this behaviour. No one should have to put up with widespread and constant poor behaviour.

I do think home has a lot to do with it - many parents just do not believe their child can possibly do wrong and don't support school, so kids learn they can get away with it. As an example, at my school recently, some students had been messing about in a local shop and a member of the public complained. Two students owned up to the Head and were given sanctions- cue complaining parents!

I do think school systems and SLT support also make a huge difference. My previous school now has widespread poor behaviour- largely because the support from SLT is woeful and they just leave teachers to deal with it alone. At my school, behaviour is excellent overall - and this is a school in a very deprived area! The reason is partly our routines that are well embedded but also the fact that every single person takes responsibility for behaviour, including the SLT, and teachers are supported. The head is extremely visible and doesn't shy away from dealing with behaviour- even fairly minor things she picks up while out and about.

We have some complex children but the systems and pastoral support we have mean that they are supported to meet the expectations.

It mainly starts at home but with a degree of peer pressure to look cool. But whatever the reason it seriously needs stopping. It’s not a new problem, it was happening when I was at school in the 80s. I was a bright child but just quietly gave up trying to learn as classes were dominated by kids fooling around, showing off or mocking those that wanted to learn. The lack of consequence for bad behaviour seems to be the problem and this really hampers the learning of other kids and makes it an impossible, horrible situation for teachers. Whatever the reason it needs to be addressed, otherwise we’re just paying lip service to educating our kids and providing a safe, secure place for our teachers to teach.

If some people had their way then no they wouldn’t.

The difference with parents making the decision is they will often view their child as more vulnerable than others, even another child of the same age. It’s nature. I’m not saying it’s necessarily deliberate. Parents are programmed to look out for their own. So while a parent may tut at a random 12 year old not standing, it is DIFFERENT for their child because THEIR child is more tired etc.

The random old person isn’t the parents problem in their eyes. Their child is more important so they should sit.

I work in a regular state secondary school. Most of our students are regular young people. Mostly polite and tolerant of each other and us. Minority have extreme behaviour problems, many of them have either no parents or parents who have a huge and completely inflexible problem with normal school rules. Like don't talk when the teacher is teaching. Don't leave the classroom during a lesson.
We have banned literally dozens of parents from school site for verbally or physically abusing staff in the last few years. One parent made threats against a staff member because we gave her child a bag whilst sitting outside the medical office in case she was sick again.
Clearly some people in society are unable to accept any form of authority, and they obviously pass this on to their children. It's quite sad really these kids don't know how to interact normally with their peers and often have no friends and become sad or angry or both as they get older.

Mostly from their own peers, they watch the behaviour & the response & copy. They speak to their parents in the same manner

I’ve worked with young people for many years and have always maintained that parents are the biggest influence. However I’m now of the mind that the internet is overriding this. I think we underestimate the influence that the internet has on young people and on toddlers via their parents. It’s huge and incredibly concerning.

Too much is said in front of children, nowadays. Private and personal stuff which would have been discussed when the children weren't about.

The senior management team at a blame for this my daughter was a supply teacher very recently had a Mercyside school.

She was slammed into a wall which caused a break in her hip by a 13-year-old girl.
No first aid was offered to her, she was not given the accident book to register the incident. Agency doesn’t want to know.
And this was all in front of a member of the senior leadership team who then put her into a classroom with the same kid.

Three times she telephoned reception for help because she wasn’t given any other means of communication. Three times she was ignored.
At the end of the lesson, she walked out and forfeited the half a day pay

Soaps on tv seem to have families that are child-led with child characters who speak to parents in an appalling manner & said adult just rolls their eyes and puts up with the behaviour.
Children DO NOT rule households and should be made aware of this.

I think it comes from bad parenting.

This is how it starts

I don’t get your point at all. Should we never give up a seat for an elderly person, because we can’t definitively say at what age a person becomes elderly?

its Bloody autocorrect

I work in a secondary school with it’s fair share of challenging kids.
It always comes from home. There is no getting around that.
My own kids would be fucking ended if they spoke to a teacher - or anyone - like that.

And yes, if they haven’t paid for a seat and someone else has, then they should be moved

Other groups who may not pay for a seat on public transport: people over 60, people with disabilities, veterans, students, job seekers. Do you require all these people to move for you?

But other people do not agree with you that a 12 year old is able to stand. So 3 isn’t. 4? 5? 9? This is how it starts. At some point a parent needs to make a decision that their child is more able that others. But for some that never seems to happen. People on here always say how 12 is still so young etc in regards to so many things. So why would standing on a bus be any different?

Plus if you don’t start it young you’ll get a lot more push back when suddenly telling a 10 year old to move and he’s asking why why should I???

I'd be absolutely appalled if my teenager ever spoke to anybody like this. I do believe it begins at home, 100%. I have to listen to my neighbours kids who at 7 and 9 think nothing of telling their parents to f off - i dread to think how they behave in school