Unintended Consequences

. There wasn’t enough information available. Was it made clear that voting Leave meant shorter holidays abroad? Not being able to easily move to another country? Losing some excellent tradespeople?
BTW I voted Remain.

My point exactly…

so maybe as some have succeeded. It could be, I don’t know…let’s say, a good idea to respect their vote. Yes they have more opportunities, coz they made choices that opened them. And like you say. It is hard.

YABU for calling this thread “Unintended Consequences”.

Removing freedom of movement between the UK and the EU was a very publicised and intended consequence.

Mad, self-spiting, but definitely intended.

Australia is very strict with immigration and Not taking in people who will cost rather than contribute.
It must be working for them as this has been their policy for a very long time.

Many nations refuse to take on medical and care costs of “immigrants”/non-ciyizens.

UK …. On the other hand… feels that its citizens are happy to pay medical and care costs any & everyone whose feet are on the ground in UK.

It's more than that though.

It was a vote that should never have happened. It was a political trick to try and do some point scoring that massively backfired that they then couldn't renege on.

Most people genuinely did NOT know what they were voting for. The propaganda out there was a nightmare to navigate, contradictory at best. No one could be expected to fully understand the implication of either Leave or Remain.

It should have been done as a provisional referendum, and the large numbers of Leave votes should have highlighted that things needed to change in the UK to make being in the EU work for us.

@ZigZagJigsaw even pre-EU days wouldn't guarantee your colleague would have been able to use the medical system in NL. I vaguely remember having to visit a hospital in Austria as a child after an accident and my insurance had to pay a chunk of the bill.

Brefugee
The EU rules were that if a person moves to a 2nd country that country could decide that if they weren't working, they could be sent back to where they came from (or to somewhere else)

They can ask you to leave - it's much more difficult to get rid of you if you don't want to leave;

In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/inactive-citizens/index_en.htm

When i first started working i had to sign a document to get my residence permit that showed i understood and agreed with that. At some point the EU rules changed so that EU citizens had to be treated the same way as citizens of the country - but the 3 month rule still applied.

Under EU rules, 'jobseekers' have at least 6 months to look for work;

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/jobseekers/index_en.htm#just-moved

As a hardcore remainer / rejoinder, I’m delighted they have had their plans scuppered by the very thing they voted for. Brexit has caused so much destruction of people’s plans, I’m pleased it’s negatively impacting those who wanted it.

the major issue the UK had with free movement is that you don't have 2 vital things most EU countries have: a) ID cards b) registration of residence

for me, b is the real problem here because it means you have no idea who lives where, and no idea if they are entitled to EU rules or not. The EU rules were that if a person moves to a 2nd country that country could decide that if they weren't working, they could be sent back to where they came from (or to somewhere else). But essentially, once you were there, working, paying tax and the local equivalent of NI (and/or the health insurance) you were fine.

Germany, where i have been for most of my life, had this. When i first started working i had to sign a document to get my residence permit that showed i understood and agreed with that. At some point the EU rules changed so that EU citizens had to be treated the same way as citizens of the country - but the 3 month rule still applied.

Of course you can’t! It’s way way harder than that 🙄🤦‍♀️

Free movement doesn't necessarily mean free healthcare if the country you are moving to doesn't have universal free healthcare. We don't know what condition the child has, but basic healthcare insurance is mandatory for adults in the Netherlands. According to this article, a basic plan for Dutch citizens (and residents) costs an average of 158 euros per month, plus a yearly excess payment, plus optional supplementary insurance. Presumably those on low incomes are covered with government help, nevertheless;

Spokesperson Tijmen Hendriksen [from the Patients’ Federation Netherlands] noted that one in five Dutch residents now avoids seeking necessary care due to financial constraints.

“People delay care, skip medications, or avoid the dentist, which often leads to more severe health issues and higher costs later,”

https://nltimes.nl/2024/12/23/rising-health-insurance-costs-drive-dutch-higher-deductibles

Sounds like an apologists excuse for voting the wrong way. 48% of us did know what we were voting to retain. 52% thought they were going to gain something they didn't realise they largely already had. No use apologising now, just please never vote again if you don't understand what you are actually voting for, or against.

you Know, you can move to another country and work there yourself/mary there/have children there if you want to…whatever stage you are at…just like the ones you are talking about.

😂😂😂

arf. People are racist and they don’t even know it. Here the race being British…

Wow that must be a massive drain on The Netherlands if their healthcare is excellent. I wonder how they afford to pay for all the people who settle to take advantage as it's not a massive country. I was too young in 2016 to vote, but would defo get my dad to move out there for his hip op if it was 10 years ago. He's been waiting 4 months so far. Shame we are not in the EU 😩

I was so angry for so long about Brexit that I thought I would go mad. Not helped by the fact that some of the people who I knew to have voted for it had access to Irish or other EU passports so voted to deprive me and mine of something that they could still get. I think it’s worth pointing out to her that this is a result of Brexit and she chose it. The bugger is that Remainers have suffered the same losses despite opposing it.

Even within the EU you shouldn't be able to just rock up and claim benefits. Normally you have 3 months and then you have to register. Expectation is you can support yourself and pay for any social security / insurance - or you leave again. The issue in the UK is that when we had the spurt of EU immigration no-one managed it. ID cards are big part of this - in most of EU you are expected to have one to prove your entitlement to work / claim benefits or healthcare. The UK had no way of easily managing this.

Yes, that is what "free movement" means.

So before Brexit would The Netherlands have paid for all the medication and care needed for the child for the rest of his life? But since Brexit she can only move if she agrees to pay for private medication/care with no contribution from the Dutch government? Genuine question as I'm not sure how it works.

That’s a bit harsh not everyone voted to keep out immigrants there were other things that people voted for. I agree the public should not have been giving the vote unless everything was explained in black and white and the government being honest would have also helped but you’re wrong calling everyone who voted stupid.

Before Brexit there was a lack of teachers, doctors, and nurses. After Brexit, the UK has lost even more employees from those three groups and now there is also a lack of retail workers, hospitality workers, fruit pickers, truck drivers, and researchers.

Have you not noticed the occasional empty shelves in the supermarkets, those times where it was difficult to get petrol for your car? Have you not noticed that many of the language teachers do not have any kind of teaching certificates but are simply some people who can speak that language? The restaurants that have decreased their opening hours because they don't have sufficient staff? The fruit rotting on the ground? The increased need for food banks?

I love it when the brexit mugs vote comes back to haunt them. Just like the magas.
Voting against your country's best interests is traitorous.

Well, with the lack of effort made by the pro-Europe politicians to defend the EU, I’m not surprised people didn’t know exactly what they were voting for.

Each and every question raised (mostly by non-political normal people) about what Brexit would do to reduce the previous levels of immigration, (a big concern in fairly poverty-stricken Northern towns, where increased levels of immigration had plunged whole communities into culture shock, reduced their NHS outcomes, put pressure on education and housing, not to mention employment outcomes), was immediately shut down, with an (un)healthy dose of repugnance, normally ending up with the question-raiser being told that they were disgusting and racist.

Had anyone (Conservatives - they were the party responsible for allowing a referendum) actually bothered to answer the questions, emphasising the benefits of remaining in the EU and potential pitfalls of leaving, I am sure there would have been a different result!

The backlash against Brexiteers from some of the “Remainers” (The Guardian and BBC set) also did nothing to further the attraction of remaining in the EU.

Instead, this morally superior faction played straight into the hands of UKIP, by calling the Brexiteers racist and stupid. That’s what you get when you insult half the Country without listening to their fears - a typical “Tommy” knee-Jerk reaction -and here we are.

I’m not sure which “side” I’m more angry with, but on balance, I do think it’s probably the self-absorbed so-called “clever” ones…

That's even funnier - they don't even understand what they ARE able to do.

I guess it depends how you feel about the EU.
For me, those people with all the expertise and know-how were making terrible decisions for the people of this country due to us being members of the EU.
The ‘idiots’ who couldn’t possibly understand what it all meant, got us out of the EU.
Again, for me, the outcome was correct, so…

You are right though in that it should never have come to a referendum. Cameron went to the EU and said, we need you to move on these three issues for us, or we’ll need to go to the people to decide on our future with the institution. The EU sent him home with a flea in his ear. And so the referendum went ahead.

What goes around, comes around! Serves her right for voting for Brexit!!