Would you pay this school fine or risk it at court

It's a hill I'd be prepared to die on, as another PP pointed out what have you got in writing about the discussion with the school to make it viable for your DC to go? Are they likely to stand up in court and say well we tried our best and it's their word against yours about what was actually offered and discussed?
Even though its obvious to the school that you will be on holiday for that week is it worth like a PP suggested saying he's sick for part of the week as surely the school will be glad for a workaround that means they don't have to issue a fine

Hi I do have some knowledge in this area from several years ago.

have the school actually mentioned a fine? They may not record it in a way that triggers one.

there are only, if I recall correctly, a few statutory defences against an absence charge, if it goes to court. If you just don’t pay the LA then have the option of going to court. https://www.stockport.gov.uk/statutory-defences-for-parents-carers-of-non-attending-children (randomly taken from a council website).

in addition there is specific guidance on medical needs in school which I will find and check.

finally I don’t know why a pp needed the diagnosis to be able to advice, the Equality Act relies on impact and length not diagnosis

I am disgusted at the lack of compassion and common sense from the school.

I have no legal knowledge what so ever but I can't get my head around the fact that the school are excluding a pupil from attending the residential (4 hours away from home, not putting any adjustments in place so that this child could attend...it should not be on the child's parent surely to come up with a solution that is either travel 8 hours a day or attend the trip when she has other responsibilities) and then the only other solution they can come up with for the time in school is sit with other year groups.

I'd argue on the fact that if school had come up with a reasonable plan, your child would have attended the trip.

And being singled out by having to sit with other year groups is going to negativity impact their mental health.

I'd be tempted to not send them in for a couple of days before and after the trip too...all their peers will be talking about going and then what happended when there and op's child will be excluded from that bonding too.

Take them away and have an amazing time op. Really hope you "win" this and don't have to pay the fine.

Not an expert in the legalities, but am absolutely Team OP here. How on earth can anyone think in these circumstances a fine should just be "sucked up"? Essentially it's a financial penalty for having a significant medical condition, and that is totally unfair in any circumstance.

I really feel for you OP. It does seem very unfair. Does the school have no leeway at all about authorising the absence? Given all the challenges your child(ren) face it seems incredibly petty if they can and won't. It sounds as though your DC would benefit far more from an activity holiday. Could you ask a medical professional to write a letter to school?

I’d appeal it and let it go to court, I’d get the papers and local PM involved too. Bloody ridiculous and posters clearly can’t read your posts properly either.

Good. I hope you also teach them not to needlessly exclude one child and give him a miserable week all alone for no reason.

This is insane to me.

‘If’ you have the mental energy then fight this forever. Use all the useful phrases above about alternative educational provision etc etc. Get lawyers and a go fund me and save the next parent from this nonsense.

But absolutely no judgement from me if that’s too much. You have a lot going on and this will be exhausting. Alternatively just do what you’re planning, see if there’s a fine and if it would be difficult to pay it, reach out to your community for support.

it’s a ridiculous situation they’ve put you in and it’s clear you’re the only person here with any sense. I hope you have a wonderful time.

I think that really sucks and is not inclusive at all. To not allow a child to go due to medical needs and then force them into school as the only one not going is rubbish. I would also personally go away but would probably pay the fine

Can you not flex the trip so you don’t hit your counties trigger point - ours is 10 sessions, so school Monday morning and head off for your trip. I understand some counties have shorter trigger points for fines which is ridiculous as the new rule was meant to create a clear approach across all parts of the country

Ok - for the school to call you out if you rang in and said DC was ill that week and sadly would not be coming in for the lonesome school sessions would be so revoltingly heartless…

Mito. I mean…as if DC and you don’t have enough to be managing. Whether you take the school on about not providing a more inclusive environment and trip is a separate issue. But just play the game on reporting DC as sick in the interim. Perhaps it’s one of those things where they can’t give you the nod but are hoping you will.

if there is a ‘recovery’ halfway through the week you can email and say, ‘bit better now, going to take them away for a couple of days R&R but only going to miss four sessions so that’s fine. And just as well he’s ill as otherwise I was going to pursue a huge complaint about the school’s unacceptable trip selection! Byeee’

In your situation I'd get legal advice before not paying the fine, or alternatively just pay it and also raise a complaint about the trip. I think not paying it without proper legal advice is a big risk.

Sometimes we comply with rules we think are wrong, and that's ok. Paying means you can focus on other things, which benefits you and your son.

I don't think I'd let it get that far, phone the school and ask for a meeting (with someone from senior leadership plus whoever you spoke to that agreed to have the trip closer). Ask that due to the disability discrimination they authorise an absence to allow your child to be provided a similar experience. I doubt they'd say no, they'd rather free up the staff than have to think of something for your son to do for a full week when they can't teach the regular curriculum.

Legally you may or may not be able to successfully challenge this on the basis your child received alternative education. It would be worth investigating this avenue in advance as, frankly, they are likely to just be babysat in school if everyone else in their class is away on a residential that week. I struggle with why a head wouldn’t want to actively support you taking that approach. An authorised absence is a different reason to avoid a fine and even if the school will never sign off on that basis they could support you in challenging any fine on another basis.

If you don’t have the energy to fight it I tend to agree calling child in sick over this period or limiting their absence to 4/4.5 days if that avoids a fine in your LA would not be unreasonable under the circumstances.

Do you believe the “right” thing to do is to follow all rules, at all times and to never challenge something unjust?

I think its wrong to fine parents. Very few other countries do it. Its overreach in my opinion - most children will get far more out of an overseas trip etc than they will sitting in a classroom.

I see you've engaged with the school and the LEA OP, that's good (it would be the LEA who would actually issue the fine, not school).

Have they actually said they would fine you, or are you assuming?

If you don't get anywhere, I'd suggest contacting your MP. This is exactly the sort of situation a high level intervention from them would be helpful. Even if the person issuing fines feels they have no discretion, the Director of Education certainly does.

Otherwise if they'll fine you for ten sessions, make it nine, as others have said.

The school only has to make Reasonable adjustments. Paying thousands for nursing care is not a reasonable adjustment.

As I'm not in UK, every time this school fines subject comes up I am astounded again that it's actually real. Is there anyother country in the world that does this? When I had a few tough years I didn't even pay the school fees ( not a private school just standard local comprehensive - but there is always a fee for something, art supplies, food tech , etc). The only thing I paid for was uniform and excursions. It made not a scrap of difference to how they were treated. If I had been charged a fine for taking the kids out of school during term time I would have ignored it.
Im intrigued what happens if you don't pay? Do they take your children away in the middle of the night? 😆

I am not familiar with how the school fines work, is the school actually persuing this fine and taking it to court?

I think that's absolutely shocking if so. They haven't made it possible for him to attend the trip. Of course he is going to get more out of a holiday with his family than kicking about the school with none of his peers and likely not being taught anything and probably feeling quite isolated.

I don't understand why people are so black and white and judgemental on here, I really don't think it's a true representation of real life.

I would have thought the school would be reluctant to pursue this due to them essentially letting your child down and the possible repercussions for them. The fine system in England is such a blunt tool and makes so sense to me. Glad I don't live there.

**

Are the school even vaguely sensible?

Its a bit of a fudge, but it might be an option to agree that your child’s health condition means that they’re not well enough to participate in the main school activity that week and thus you’ll keep them off sick and do something with them that is within their health capacity that week. ‘Roughly like you suggested school, that way I can be their carer during the activitivities that are compatible’.

I would totally refuse in your position. I’d also be tempted to try and get my MP involved.

Is your school oversubscribed? If not you could deregister and “home educate” for a week.

This is one of those cases that really highlights how stupid the whole system is. I hope you and your son have a fantastic time.

Get some advice from a solicitor, not MN. Personally I would be happy to refuse to pay the fine and let a magistrate’s court decide, that’s what courts are for , to arbitrate and reach a fair decision.

Tell them he's sick!

I don't think people get out of fines because they find ways to justify it to themselves i mean sure it may happen but I teach my child do the right thing in the first place as it is the mature thing to do and also simpler

I'd take some advice from a specialist education lawyer before going to court, but in principle I am fully behind your actions, and you are absolutely doing the right thing by your DC in my book.