Would you pay this school fine or risk it at court

Scotland has persistant absence rate that are half as high again as England’s. 30% compared to England’s 20%. Scotland copes, but at the expense of the worst off of their children.

I don’t mean OP is in the wrong in this particular instance. But the claim that Scotland’s schools’ do fine so OP is being put in a ridiculous situation is unsubstantiated. In general, Scotland’s schooling has become really substandard. It used to be brilliant but the SNP has absolutely fucked over Scottish kids.

There are two separate issues here.
Morally I think taking your son on holiday was absolutely correct. Miserable to be in school when others are enjoying themselves on the residential.

Fine
The fine should be looked at on a case by case basis, not blanket. However if it issued I’d pay it even if it seems unfair.

I did prosecuting for council for non school attendance. There is no way my head of legal services would have agreed a prosecution in these circumstances as we have to look at whether it “in the public interest”. This is the test used for
all prosecutions such as burglary etc.

However was many years ago so not sure what would happen now or your particular local authority. The court case under section 444(1) of Education Act 1996 is strict liability- did they attend or not. Discretion would come under what the sentence should be and the Magistrates when I was prosecuting would have taken a very dim view of us prosecuting the case. BUT still a record - is it worth that.

Discrimination
Definitely look at this. See if there is an outbound centre closer. Did the school take any steps to talk to local authority/CCG?

Not an area I know at all to know even whether legal aid was available.

Can you get a medical certificate or other evidence to say that for medical reasons they can’t attend? So a sickness absence? That way it would be authorised absence.

Wow! Some of the lack of empathy and awareness of the difficulties you and your ds faces from many posters here is quite mind-boggling.

What heartless jobs worth is going to issue this fine? Stand your ground OP, enjoy your holiday with your family and IF some idiot sees it fit to issue you with a fine...absolutely appeal the fine...many magistrates would see things with a more open mind than the lemming who issues it and the naysayers on here.

Your mistake was in not fighting for your DS to have the right support to enable him to attend the PGL activity.

This is so unfair! Poor love is he sad to not be able to go?

I would consider :
a) request a meeting with the school and where you state lack of accessibility etc and your plans and then follow up in writing ( they have to send your details to the LA for the fine, they might not
b) could you go somewhere closer for the week and stay nearby so he can join in the daytime activities and stay with you ( air BnB / cottage etc) over night?
c) could you use his DLA to pay for the nursing to allow him to go?
d) who is your local authority cabinet member for education? I’d be emailing a d explaining the situation to them

Enjoy the holiday and don't pay the fine. Let it go to court, under the disability discrimination you should win. Child has a right to a holiday since the school didn't include him in theirs.

Scotland's education system is in total crisis and has appallingly low results. I wouldn't personally be trumpeting the wonder of schools in Scotland .

I thought they were allowed up to 10 sessions of unauthorised absence before the fine kicks in? So you should get away with one week off anyway? Unless he's already had some unauthorised absence

I dont blame you for wanting to fight it. It's a ridiculous system. Loads of people at our school are taking term time holidays regardless of the fines.

Ten sessions very much does meet the threshold for referral.

I’m really sorry OP as I think it would be really unfair if you were fined for this but I think legally they could and would. Could you get any free legal advice to see if they could fight in on your behalf? Why should your child suffer and miss out because nobody would pay for the extra help they’d need at night. Otherwise I’m afraid you’re going to have to pay the fine. But that would really annoy me too.

I was a teacher of this age group for 20 years. Taking 25 children, without serious health problems, away for a week is an absolutely enormous responsibility. Add into that a child who needs dialysis and night time venting on a trip that's 4 hours away from the only parent ( who has a job and other dependent children so can't just drop everything and meet us at a local hospital if there's a sudden crisis...and there will be a crisis, there always is) and I can absolutely see why the school have said they can't take this child. It is is shame that they aren't seeing you taking him to something far nicer as a positive for you and an enormous relief for them and the member of staff. If I was the Head I wouldn't be fining you.

There won't be a fine.
5 days of absence does not meet the threshold for a fine.

It's not the activities, it's the medical issues probably. I took a child with epilepsy on a European trip once but also took an epilepsy nurse. I can't remember the details now as years and years ago. Child required medical care beyond the capacity of a first aider.

Scotland does so many things better!

Our school gets told to return the day after vomiting now, never mind taking holidays 🤷🏼‍♀️

I would also choose this hill, and would go to Court if necessary. What they’ve done is potentially discriminatory anyway - it might be worth calling the Civil Legal Advice. But if you understandably don’t have the energy to fight this you could ask them to authorise and if not, take him for morning registration on the Monday and then take him straight out. He will only miss 9 sessions then so will avoid the fine. They are absolutely heartless if they refuse to authorise.

Do you believe in your heart he could have attended the school trip with reasonable adjustments?

Did they know about the medical issue when they planned it?

if so they have put themselves in a very poor situation with regard to discrimination and I would pursue that.

However in terms of the fine, I dont know the case law on this but if they have in place an alternative suitable full time education for your child during that week, i think legally you could still be liable. As that is what you are missing. Even if morally they are wrong. But if that were the case I'd pursue the discrimination even harder.

I would choose this hill to die on. Legally it's probably enforceable, but morally - absolutely no way.

I would have ChatGPT write me a letter for a formal counter complaint of discrimination and make it clear you will pursue this if they pursue you. They are being absolutely monstrous.

Have school said they will fine you??

none of the schools I’m involved w would - they have discretion not to. It’s appalling that they would consider this!

we have kids who need complex night cares that we HAVE taken (waking care, suctioning etc). It’s terrifyingly expensive but it’s their end of school residential and so important. We get a small grant and parents pay the standard charge.

it did cause some fallout and soul searching when one family in these circs changed their mind at the last minute when everything was paid, and the child didn’t go (wasn’t ill, parents just too worried). Understandable but painful all round…

This is the guidance that you need. It is clear re trying to allow children the same opportunities with regard to their medical condition however and the impact this has. Where you may fall down is the that a family holiday is different to a peer holiday although obviously close to what they are doing in other ways.

I would try to open the dialogue again with school. (It’s ICB not CCG now, surprised school are referring to CCG).

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/803956/supporting-pupils-at-school-with-medical-conditions.pdf

Have you actually even asked the school if they will authorise? They might surprise you. I would push them to consider an exceptional circumstance. If the won't then yes I would pay the fine as the cost of going to court is much higher.

I totally understand your point, but I wouldn't put yourself through the stress of court. Their hands are fairly tied and I don't think they would take everything into account. Fines are often for 5 days. Could you take him in for 30 mins on Monday morning to get a present mark and then go? You might not get a fine that way.

I'm generally anti termtime holidays, but in this instance totally with OP.

With regards to the CCG, they should be paying for a certain amount of overnight care on a routine basis. If you are up several times a night for cares, then a nighttime nurse should be funded at least 2-3 nights a week, so you get some decent rest. A family I work with, had a very similar situation, and they were allowed to put 2 weeks worth of nights together to enable their child to attend, and the following week they did all the nights themselves. It would probably take too long to arrange for this trip, but I would be asking for a review of his care package.

To avoid the fine, could he go into school one day,take him out about 1pm after afternoon registration, then only 4 days off?

This doesn’t help specifically but see the point re: school residential

https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/supporting-children-with-medical-needs-in-schools/#elementor-toc__heading-anchor-7