Is our parenting technique too gentle?!

It sounds like you haven't been gentle so much as permissive and she has got into the habit of thinking this is acceptable.

I'm not a gentle parent, so these are not gentle suggestions, but in this situation, I'd first make it very clear that this isn't OK. It's better to talk about these things when she's calm so you can have a talk with her tomorrow and say that screaming, shouting, swearing and making demands isn't OK and you won't allow it any more.

Then you set a plan for bedtime, nice bath with bubbles, stories with Mummy/Daddy and then tucking into bed maybe with calming music or lighting. If you need to stay with her for a little while so she can drift off and you're happy to do that, that's OK.

If she then starts kicking off, then she gets one warning that this is not part of the deal, and then you just leave. If she follows you into a different room, don't engage with her, just take her back to her bed and put her there. If she realises she's not getting any reaction for her behaviour, it will stop.

And being made to go to bed at the same time as a 6 year old is absolutely batshit. Don't do that.

I don’t want you to feel like you’re being picked on whatever you do but I think cancelling a sleepover next week is a bad idea. It’s way too far away at 6, she’s unlikely to remember and it’s disproportionate to whatever she did that made you decide on this. It’s days away, by then you might not remember why you did it.

I’m not keen on punishments and consequences have to be proportionate and immediate, where possible.

I think you're right to remove some privileges like this. If one of my own kids came downstairs and wouldn't go up the stairs, I would take them by the hand and very confidently March them upstairs. If there was resistance there, I'd remind them about x thing that they are interested in/like and how they will have access to it when you see that they can make the right choice.

If they go up to bed, great, heard them next day. If not, take the thing away the next day and tell her why you are doing it.

This will not shame or traumatise your daughter. This will help her understand that you're in charge.

I've been working on some version of this approach for a long time and children who are faced with discipline like this, become so much more secure, more likeable, sleep better, perform better at school and are ultimately happier.

Closer to five than four! And he seems to be getting it all from school then testing the boundaries here and I’m struggling to know what an appropriate consequence is.

I’m sorry, you sit in the corner of her room while she screams abuse at you?? Literally shut the door and walk away? A consequence of shouting vile abuse is that people won’t want to be around you. She needs to learn this!

oh hey, they wear earplugs though to ‘show her’ they’re not listening.

this is not gentle parenting. This is….fuck knows…really fucking weird parenting…..

There are two issues here and they're being lumped together

1. Your 6 year old doesn't want to go to sleep alone.

This is very common. Is she scared of being alone upstairs when you both are downstairs? Does she need your reassuring, comforting presence to go to sleep?
What's happening now is that she behaves badly, you stay (you're not interacting with her, but you're still staying) and she sleeps. Why not do her bedtime routine and then stay with her (non-interacting) until she sleeps. Tell her this will be happening in the daytime so she knows what to expect, then she has no need to use the bad behaviour. The point of conflict is removed and she's supported to go to sleep (quickly)

1. Your 6 year old is rude and disrespectful when she doesn't get what she wants.

I consider myself to be a gentle parent. I do not under any circumstances accept that sort of behaviour from a child. I don't care if it's bed time, or any other time. That behaviour needs addressing right then and there. Never mind about removing treats the next day, it's too far away to make the connection between crime and punishment in a litte kids mind. Put on your very best stern teacher voice, channel The Trunchbull "I beg your pardon. You do not speak to me like that. Stop that right now."
If she doesn't stop, then leave. That's the logical consequence. "I will not let you speak to me like that. I will come back when you have stopped being rude". Then return after a few minutes, if she's rude again, leave again. If she follows you out of her bedroom, pick her up and put her back in it.
Non of this is ideal, which is why I would remove the source of bedtime conflict as I said above. But if it does kicks off at bedtime, then she'll be late getting to sleep. But no way would I sit passively with headphones in while a child is shouting rudely at me. You need to be in charge. She needs you to be in charge.

What’s gentle about it then?
it always seems like a weird way of stating you don’t use corporal punishment or something. I’ve known people to describe themselves as gentle parents who do everything from no rules natural consequences to turning their children into nervous anxious wrecks with pressure to be the best at everything. But still think they’re gentle parents because they don’t shout?!

I tried gentle parenting and tbh I found it difficult to implement, it was too child centred iyswim. I went to common sense, be kind and loving and if she’s done something to really piss me off or upset me I let her know she’s doing it and a consequence for not stopping it. I think it’s important that she see’s that her behaviour has an impact on someone elses feelings so I sometimes I will state that I am starting to feel very angry.

I also think children should know when they are harming others very clearly. I think too much calmness teaches children there is no consequence to behaving appalling, I don’t think it teaches empathy at all. We have to send them out into the world and if they start shouting abusive stuff to other people there may be very swift consequences. I think kids who are over gentle parented will struggle with other peoples boundaries. Think about how you would react if you saw your DD behaving like that towards a teacher for example. I take the view that each member of my household has a right to be treated with kindness and respect, I include parents in that.

Mine is actually quite bad tempered and will definitely kick off about random things. We check that we’ve understood the problem but if the request we made is reasonable we make sure she follows through because she knows a privilege will be revoked if she doesn’t. She’s allowed to have a moan about it, thats fine. I also think some personalities need a different approach.

It’s really tough OP, DH and I were both raised by authoritarian parents and were trying to get it right when we started gentle parenting. We just found it wasn’t effective for us. Stop sitting in her room with her, she starts screaming then you move away and a privilege is revoked. You did the right thing cancelling her sleep over. She may follow you around yelling the first night but you have to keep repeatedly turning her around and walking her to her room etc and eventually it will sink in. Praise good behaviour lavishly. I thank DD for being helpful, kind or considerate etc, like every little thing “thank you helping with clearing up after dinner”, “thanks for offering to share your sweets, thats really kind of you”. You are trying to incentivise good behaviour and discourage negative behaviour. The praise is a really important counter balance whilst you are firming up your boundaries. She needs to see she’s not just being told off and corrected but that she’s getting lots of stuff right too.

We are all winging it OP, good parents care enough to want to make sure they are getting it right. Some kids have just got more forceful personalities thank others. They don’t all come out the same so you have to parent with the personality you have. Gentle parenting probably works best on already chill kids.

This.

I “gentle parented” my 3 boys. I was bloody strict and had firm boundaries. I was clear about what the boundaries were and what would happen if they were kept and what would happen if they weren’t. Gentle parenting isn’t permissive parenting. Children need someone to be in charge, to be in control. Otherwise they take control and that actually makes them feel unsafe and insecure

I don't think I'm making myself clear. To be clearer:

1. Set out your expectations. This is your bedtime, we are your parents, and it is our job to make sure you go to bed on time so that you get enough rest. We decide when your bedtime is. I know that that is a change for you and you don't like it but that is our decision and it isn't up for debate. X time is when we will go up your room and X time is when we need you to lie quietly in bed and we will switch the light off. We can sit in your room with you.

2. When she predictably screams and shouts abuse, because that is what she's used to, and because she thinks you might change your mind about bedtime; you remain calm, you don't react with punishment, threats or escalation. You more or less don't give fuel to the fire. The impression I had from the OP is that when they make it clear they aren't listening to the abuse or engaging with it; DD gives up and goes to sleep quite quickly. That seems fine. If they are consistent she will soon stop the unwanted behaviour. Then they can work on withdrawing from the room by going back to step one and resetting expectations (eg "Just Daddy at bedtime" "Just sitting in your room for 5 minutes") - whatever until they reach a set up they're happy with.

If behaviour crosses a line, I think it's fine to draw your boundary. "Your shouting is hurting my ears so I'm going to move away until you can be less noisy". "No, it is your bedtime and you cannot come downstairs" (lift the child back to bed). "I will not let you hit me" (hold arms until they stop trying to hit). This can be pretty tedious but has the benefit of being calm, clear, immediate, proportionate, and the child knows what they need to do to de-escalate the decision without losing face, rather than feeling trapped and even more upset by an arbitrary punishment. As soon as they de escalate, you return to the previous state (returning into the room, letting go of the arms, whatever it may be) - so that the direction the child prefers, and the direction you prefer, end up aligned. And you stick to the expectations you set. At no point do you have to stop being warm and sympathetic to the child. But you can still be very clear with your boundaries and the immediate consequences of breaking them. If consistent then the unwanted behaviour will not last because as soon as they understand you are sticking with it they'll stop pushing.

Sounds like she has SEN to be honest. It’s not normal for a 6 year old to be screaming abuse at you.

I am a ‘gentle parent’ of an only and this sounds a trillion miles away from a normal situation

And under what circumstances does he call you names?

What sort of names and how recently did your child turn 4?

Sorry not RTFT but what consequences do people tend to give for name calling? My DS (4) doesn’t verbally abuse us as such but is definitely in a name calling phase and struggling to know how to deal with it. Lots of people on this thread saying it just wouldn’t happen in their house.

True. My children hate the dark so they have a night light and we leave the door open. I'm happy to pop in and out on nights they're feeling a bit wobbly, maybe even get in for a snuggle, but I do go and they don't ever shout at me.

Perhaps she has developed a fear of being on her own in the dark and fighting you is the only way she feels she can tell you. Some children have big imaginations and can get really scared. But having said that the abuse needs to stop

Take her hand in yours - lead her back to her room - say a set phrase e.g. ‘time to sleep now’ pop her into bed and then walk from the room shutting the door behind.

the first night of doing this - you might have to repeat a few times as she is going to try her old repertoire of shouting at you to get attention - but if you are gentle, firm and consistent with your actions and words the message that it is bedtime will sink in.

don’t excuse this behaviour - it will only get worse . You need to get on top of it - that doesn’t mean harsh punishments but it does mean setting out the boundaries and letting her know what you expect and that you mean business.

You are the parent here. At 6 this behaviour is relatively easy to modify - think what she will be like at 16 if she is is used to ruling the roost and getting her own way and screaming obscenities at you.

Doesn’t bear thinking about - Sort it now or you will seriously live to regret it.

I think I'm gentle with my kids but jeepers, I wouldn't allow that! Children who don't have enough boundaries set for them do not feel safe. Parents need to be leaders.

For me, I usually try to diffuse my kids attitudes with humour. I use Roald Dahl-esque language like "oh look its a grizzly grunion" and tickle them or do something weird like put a tomato on my nose, but your daughter might think you've gone a bit daft if you suddenly do that out of nowhere.

I would tell them their behaviour is unacceptable and just walk away if they yell at me. Mine are 3 and 5.

The theory of ignoring unwanted behaviour has done so much damage to helping children to manage their emotions and behaviour. There should be only very, very few, carefully selected times when ignoring a child's behaviour is the most effective strategy. Child deserve to be taught, explicitly, what is unacceptable. Adults think that the child is learning, to their dismay, that their behaviour won't get a response. The children are learning, to their delight, that they can get away with whatever they like. It doesn't work.

Let’s not kid ourselves…

You have not tried absolutely everything.

I don’t shout at my kids really but my dd who is just 3 knows when I mean business,

What is the consequence for her frankly appalling behaviour right now?
Answer: Nothing

When she is calm I’d get out/ make a behaviour board with consequences let her know how bedtimes are going to look and then as parents I’d get on with it.
the names the screaming etc would all result in media blackouts and no treats
no tv, no phones, no tablets, no cartoons.
And stick to it.
no treats at all - meals only.
toy taken away… whatever it is.

I don’t go into any big chat or get angry or explain. At 3 my dd knows when she’s done something wrong she doesn’t need me to explain it.

you are going to have a ropey week or two enforcing this but that’s on you for letting this nonsense start up in the first place.

If you have to physically move her to her bedroom close the door so be it.

basically ensures the kicking / screaming / tantrums have consequences and she is clear it’s a No from both of you.

you are doing your child no favours at all of you don’t tackle this and your other problem areas (and if this is your daily bedtime I promise there are other problem areas)

This.
You need to parent her properly.

This!