My feminism has made me bitter

I meant irrelevant to me personally, that seemed like an odd choice for you to pick as your example out of everything.

All the things you listed are what feminism should be/used to be. It's turned into something unrecognisable and I could no longer proudly announce myself as a feminist because there is so much that I simply wouldn't want to be associated with.

I can't relate to this at all. I was raised by my dad and have been with my DH for 30 years this year.
My dad was the most amazing man and DH is literally my favourite person on this planet.
Neither has ever made me feel 'less than' - quite the opposite in fact. I can't imagine never having had both these men in my life.
Sure, there are complete dicks in every walk of life - but, honestly, I know as many women (if not more!) who are like this as I do men.
Good men are out there, you just need to find them. It also goes without saying that if you're giving negative energy out, that's what you'll get back.

Yep, where and when I grew up girls still did textiles while the boys did football. I wasn’t allowed meccano even. After the first time I got followed, after my parents got bored, they tried to tell me I could only go out under the supervision of my little brother. It was not boys that were discouraged from being out of doors. The world of work is specifically set up for men, set up in a period of history when women’s rights hit a low. Women are the ‘reserve’ in modern western economics and their well-being is simply not a factor.

In 50 years I have never met a man who truly believed women’s time and effort were as valuable as their own; unfortunately my ‘d’h fell well short of that once I had kids. Lots of talk and crap to make himself look and feel good at his work, but happy to chuck my life under the bus as soon is it’s even slightly inconvenient.

Men are a major problem in societies around the world and commit violence everywhere. The next age of civilization needs to put women and ecology first again. We are the path to the future, not them.

Well, I agree with sentence 1.

But sentence 2 - give me strength! YOU never had to get credit so irrelevant, and never mind all the other women in the world…

Not to mention equal pay, the right to work when married, the right not to be raped in marriage, rights to own property, get mortgages, drive, vote… so many more that I really shouldn't have to spell out.
Are these irrelevant?

No I’m not. I don’t believe in only looking out for women. I believe in looking out for all good people.
The patriarchy became the patriarchy because men looked out for men. I have no desire whatsoever to flip that balance into a matriarchy. I’d like fairness for all.
Feminism and misogyny are two sides of the same coin imo. And they lead to misery.

I don’t think MGTOW is about choice. It feels more like lack of choice- men believing that having a relationship with a woman is impossible and therefore embracing its absence. It really feels like a negative and part of our increasing social atomisation.

Past feminists and present feminists are in no way alike. I could never class myself as a modern day feminist.

I've never had to get credit so that's irrelevant.

I think in saying that you are just looking at interpersonal relationships and not considering the power imbalance inherent in patriarchy.

Feminism is about self respect.

Not one person on here has ever referred to, or considered appropriate "undiluted hatred of men and boys". I've been politically active for many years, and have never come across this. Perhaps you have seen this online, I don't know.
What is being discussed here is feminism, which is all about women's rights. How people object to that, I don't know.

It's not your feminism that has made you bitter, it's the shit that has been constantly heaped upon you all your life by patriarchy and misogyny that has made you bitter. Your feminism has made you more aware of it but it's not the feminism that is the cause of the bitterness.

I bet you’re happy to take all the things those tedious feminists won for you though - or do you still have your DH/DF co sign applications for credit?

You don’t need feminism for that. Just some self respect. Women treat women badly too.

feminism means that rape in marriage is no longer legal but of course it’s never made anyone’s life happier 🙄

My point was there is a fine line between forwarding woman's rights and just pure undiluted hatred of all men and boys. A lot of what I see on social media undoubtedly falls into the latter and is just as ugly as misogyny. All in all going too far down the rabbit hole into either misogyny or pure hatred of all men and boys just warps people's minds and ultimately their personality.

Sounds absolutely miserable to be honest. I don't consider myself a feminist and I am very happy.

To use a term from a different strand of feminist discussion, @Yourra , you’ve peaked.

You have reached the summit, see all the ingrained male entitlements, the assumptions, the constraints placed on women and the shit-show that is misogyny and you can’t unsee it.

It hits us at different times of our lives - adolescence is one, motherhood another. Just wait until the ball of rage that is menopause gets to you - no wonder men call us witches and try to shut us up! Welcome to the fight! 😉

I wish the title was “Misogyny had made me bitter”! But yes, once you see it you can’t unsee it. But why would you want to?

Feminism made my life better, @Swiftie1878 because I realised how I was being treated and learned how to stand up for myself (and others) and be assertive and speak out.

Neither misogyny nor feminism has ever made a life happier.
Take everyone as you find them. Look for the good in people. And don’t sweat the small stuff.

Women can’t transition to men. It’s a literal impossibility.

And the ones who pass well enough to be genuinely
’treated as men’ are infinitesimally rare

So called bitter feminists are reacting to the stranglehold of patriarchy.
Quite reasonably, I'd say, considering the many ways women are fucked over by men and their systems.
It isn't “spreading hate and division” to get angry about, and object to, being oppressed.
We used to say ”scratch a woman, find a rage”
Once you see it, you can't unsee it. I'm amazed that so many can't see it, or maybe don't want to.
(And yes, I am aware that some aspects of patriarchy aren't great for men, either. But on the whole, they are doing better than women)

I am retired now so can’t comment on the average workplace, but your experience everywhere else you mention is not mine at all. If anything, I find men generally move out of the way for me and are courteous (and it’s not because I am either ancient or a great beauty). And as an aside, I have noticed that it’s more often women than men who don’t thank me for letting them in to a line of traffic.

I used to feel like this until I watched some war movies. There’s a whole bunch of young men wondering if conscription might make a comeback. There are other pressures that men face that they don’t talk about, which is why they suddenly top themselves without reaching out. It might help to read some experiences of women who transitioned to men, and the hostility and loneliness they encountered when the world was treating them as men.

Would you encourage people not to have too much exposure to anti racism?