My feminism has made me bitter

How does this work @Tradwife365 ?

My friends husband left her with 5 kids to bring them up on her own and is rubbish at maintenance. Fortunately she is a doctor so she can support everyone herself. Had she been a 'tradwife', she would have been screwed not freed.

Ahh don’t worry there’s always anomalies to the general way people are. I totally accept that some people the opposite way round, but generally it is the woman that is naturally tidier!

Have you seriously never met a messy woman (hi, it's me, now you have) or a neat man (that would be DP)?

I really do genuinely believe that. It’s my belief that’s why modern marriages fail, as the woman constantly has to ask the man to do housework because woman have higher standards around the home. Woman naturally prefer a cleaner, more organised home so if a woman works she always has to ‘nag’ the man to do more.

I actually do see the value in highlighting feminism as a driving cause and thus responsible in some way. Because it made me see things, realise things and wake up from a very naive state within which I had existed up until about 30 years old probably! It's a bit like shoot the messenger mentality.

So it made me see reality. And I feel a little bitter because reality is incredibly unpleasant and I often wish I could return to my deluded state. On this and many things actually 😆.

I wonder how much happier women in delusion or complete acceptance and contentment of a patriarchy, misogynist society are to the rest of us living more in truth. Genuine question.

Well if you understood it then you really didn’t need to tell OP off for being “goady” and that she meant to write something different did you?

Yes, I've always been bright and read a lot. Before I reached secondary school, I realised:

• boys expected to do less but achieve more
• girls achievements often overlooked (not always - our best mathematician was a girl who I don't think ever got a question wrong in class)
• girls on TV being weak, useless and boring if they were there at all (She-Ra needed a man to save her every week)
• no girls as playable characters in video games
• male default
• male gaze

Secondary school helped me find words like '"representation" and understand the theoretical basis but reading "What Society Does to Girls" by Joyce Nicholson blew the lid off!!!

So I get you completely. I've always seen it, echoing throughout history, and it still angers me. I have 3 boys and I'm trying to make them better men.

Years of extreme personal suffering alongside years of counselling have made me pretty aware. MN has further helped that.

The price for this awareness is huge. A part of me wishes to go back to ignorance and self delusion. I believe that the majority are in delusion and therefore can cope with all this horrible stuff. ( They don't t really feel it or see it)

I'm single because of choice with severe health challenges. I however feel immense freedom because of this. In another life,I'd still choose singIedom. I don't know how any woman copes in a relationship, with children particularly. I believe there really are great men. Yet the pervasiveness of this stuff is just horrible. I can't believe what the younger me accepted,shrugged off, endured.

If I had a partner it would never work because I would be triggered by every expression that I felt reflected a patriarchy in any way now.

I look at the really doting trad wives and do think, if they are happy and fulfilled, I think that must be nice. To be so accepting and ok with the gender separation. I don't begrudge those women who enjoy it.

When it comes to raising children that's where it all gets so complicated for me. A traditional set up might really be in the best interest of children's development. But it goes against so much inside so many of us.

I guess the conclusion is that there's nothing wrong with traditional roles and those traditional roles should not have to equal unfair labour division, misogyny and no access to financial independence. I don't know how you achieve all that though.

How about men have a bit of empathy for women and sort out some of the problems of men's making?

Why is it my job to fix men's problems and problems made by men?

I posted a thread previously (under a different name) about how becoming a mother has made me dislike men. I completely agree with everything you’ve said in your post

My statement has nothing to do with modern feminism at all.

If my refusal to dick pander puts women off feminism it's not my feminism that's the problem.

What good would empathy do? Men have all the power they need to change their own circumstances if they're not happy. In fact they are exceptionally good at taking advantage to benefit themselves, often at women's expense.

The idea that everyone somehow has one of two specific sets of skills or abilities based on their sex is the sort of muddled uncritical thinking that misogynists promote. I think some of them actually believe it as well.

A lot of it stems from the ubiquitous conflation of culturally "feminine" (whatever that means in your society) with "female", and likewise for "masculine" with "male".

The sooner you (general you!) realise that these are describing different things - body vs character traits - the sooner you see the sexism and harm bound up in it.

I love hags! I’ve also just read it’s a woman’s world by Stella Beake which was all about how women got so angry with all the violence and discrimination that they took over the world. I liked that too, a lot of reverse situations where men were discriminated against which just highlighted the misogyny that still remains, everywhere.

the post was clear: it is not feminism making you bitter. It is the misogyny of the patriarchy.

can you report your post and ask MN to change the title - or are you sticking with the goady title?

100%

When are equally fired up about rape, maybe that's the point women can be more invested about mens issues?

The oppressed don't usually have empathy with the oppressor.

This is the kind of attitude that puts women off modern feminism.

A bit of empathy wouldn't go amiss.

I absolutely relate to what you’re saying OP. I’ve been lucky to have had great men in my life, but I am much more cynical now than I once was, now that my eyes have been opened.

In the Female Eunuch Germaine Greer said equality for women was a profoundly conservative aim. Second wave feminism was about liberation not equality.

For the average bloke being a man is only marginally less shit than being a woman, why would I set the bar as low as equality?

Once again, classic MN. Rather than addressing the implied topic of this post (I see misogyny everywhere, do others feel the same?) the first hundred replies are having a go at the OP because of issues with the wording.

If you’re more suited to it, and you enjoy it - all power to you. Doesn’t mean all women are, or everyone shares your point of view.

To make such a weird, sweeping generalisation that “men are more fit to work” than us - it’s deeply misogynistic, and in my experience, simply not true. How are men more suited to paid work out of the home than women?

Absolutely agree with everything @FeministUnderTheCatriarchy just said.

I agree with you, OP. The more you see, the more you can’t unsee and the angrier we get. And this is weaponised against us as then you get called “Karen” even though actually you might have legitimate reasons for being angry - and therefore it’s conflated with racism and bigotry to discredit women.

I’m reading “Hags” by Victoria Smith at the moment. Worth a read, if you can bear additional anger!!

But we're not. We do it because no one else does. I hate domesticity and the way to do less of it is to get rid of men.

I'm a career woman. I love what I do. I hate cleaning, cooking, house/family admin.

What a miserable way to live your life.