DP’s messages in group chat - do I confront him?

Yeah.

His sexism is also demonstrated by the comments on the woman whose body he pronounces to be good;

She could not be single because she ended relationships (and for valid reasons).
She can only be single because men didn't stick with her.

The men must have done the finishing and they must have done it because she's a head case, or words to that effect.

So, men do the finishing. Women don't.

Men would never finish with a woman with a good body, without a very good reason.
Because a good body is paramount in a woman.

(Note the "women are bodies" attitude across his comments on the "unrideable" acquaintance and the op's sister, whose bridesmaid dress he hopes will reveal her body).

Women apparently don't finish with men.

Presumably there could be nothing wrong with a man that would merit finishing with him.

I've ended several relationships because there was something "wrong" with the man. Sometimes in a row. This is not possible in his view. I must be a head case.

So what if the friend is shit stirring because her relationship is on the rocks? She couldn’t shit stir if he hadn’t said what he said could she? Don’t hold women responsible for men’s poor behaviour. Maybe it’s the sister’s fault for having boobs as well ffs.

I think you’re missing the point and focusing on the messenger rather than the fact that your dp is a creep.

Better you know now that after marriage and kids.

Tell your friend that you dont actually appreciate her shitstirring in your relationship and then being surprised that you actually acted on it rather than just snooped.

I would be seriously considering calling it all off with the wedding plans, and finding new friends

You’re shouting the messenger here

your anger and disappointment should be for your partner - a sleazy prick who thinks women are there to serve men sexually - and it wouldn’t surprise me if he thinks cheating is an ok thing to do

There is a huge issue with misogny in schools (including Primary). The usual excuses are that it is just banter and boys will be boys. Schools are doing their best to crack down on this. In Safeguarding guidance produced by the Government it is stated to not accept these excuses. Government commissioned OFSTED to do a review of child on child abuse in schools which included attitudes demonstrated by OP’s partner and his mates. It does not make pretty reading.

And here we have women excusing such behaviour as banter and it’s what men do.

Well maybe it shouldn’t be. And we as parents need not only to be telling our sons not to engage in such conversations but to teach them to call it out.

It used to be common for many workplaces to have page 3 posters/calendars on the wall. Go into a garage to get your car serviced and there would be a picture of some woman’s tits on the wall. Thank god that is becoming much less common. These attitudes to women need to be challenged not accepted

Looks like your ‘friend’ was trying to stir the pot by sending them to you. Why would she do that otherwise?

Some people can be wild in their 20s

This is not wild.

This is demonstrating fundamental values.

Only read op but course he’s out playing golf. Prick. I don’t care what other women say about all men being like this, decent honest men do not speak about women like this. You can be a real man and not need to reduce women to whether you would fuck them or not to other men. Boys will be boys needs to fuck right off. Talking about your sister like that is disrespectful in the extreme.

If you choose to marry this man and have dc I’d bet money you will be on here saying he goes out with the lads and is too hungover to help out after his mornings playing golf and you never get a break.

I didn’t mean OP and her friends should stick with them.

I meant the only way her DP could come back from it in terms of salvaging any shred of dignity and showing any level of maturity.

I disagree that people can’t change. Most people mature and grow over time and particularly having made mistakes. That’s why unacceptable behaviour should be challenged. Some people can be wild in their 20s, do all sorts of stupid things, but be fabulous people in their 40s. Often, because of it.

But, I wouldn’t be sticking around to find out.

here’s the evidence your DP is a nob but you’re not allowed to say or do anything with it”

Good thing that's not what she said then, eh.

SMH.

I’m sorry but I wouldn’t trust your friend is being your friend. It’s all very “here’s the evidence your DP is a nob but you’re not allowed to say or do anything with it” ?! What does she actually expect? That you’re not going to say anything? I think she’s done it as she wants someone else to have problems in their relationship.
As for your DP there would be no coming back for me after this it’s just a horrible way to speak about women generally let alone my friends and family

I don’t agree with looking at people’s private stuff, including phones, papers etc

I do.

A lot of people have been saved from misery and abuse by a bit of pertinent snooping.

A lot of people have not been saved from misery and abuse by never snooping.

The thing about sociopathic people is that they lie.
You will never ever find out the truth without snooping.

Ah I see. Seemed pretty realistic. I didn’t read all the posts there, especially towards the end. I’d have thought trolling would be more fruitful if a more political/current affairs topic was involved. Although toxic masculinity is a hot topic. @

The only way your DP, and the entire group, can come back from this is to hold their hands up, take accountability for their behaviour (including other men in the group not challenging it), apologise to all concerned and explain what they’ve learned to take forward.

These guys are in their twenties at least, possibly thirties...... Their values are fixed. Their characters are fixed.

They ain't going to change.

Any appearance of change would be lip service.

It's very clear she thinks he is cheating

I wouldn't actually say that.

I'd say it's clear she thinks he's an utter sleaze.

I don't think she's implying he's anything else, she doesn't know.

OP, you said upthread: don’t think I can bring it up without causing a lot of trouble.

Remember, the only person who’s caused trouble is your DP. Possibly your friend’s DP, if her suspicions are correct. And the other members of the group chat who didn’t challenge your DP’s messages.

I don’t agree with looking at people’s private stuff, including phones, papers etc. It’s a breach of trust. But, once your friend had and saw what she saw, she was a good friend to tell you. Once she’d told you, you had to speak to your DP about it.

But, kindly, IMHO you should have held off and warned your friend you were going to have to say something. And ideally your other friends whose DPs are in the group. You’ve moved so quickly you’ve blindsided them all, especially the friend who exposed the group chat, who now has to lie to her DP or come clean. It’s understandable. You were shocked and emotional.

If she’s usually a good and true friend to you, try to meet her in person this weekend. Thank her for letting you know. Apologise to her for telling your DP about the group chat when she’d asked you not to. Acknowledge how much stress this has now caused her too. But ask her to understand the stress her snooping and revelations put you under. Acknowledge that you reacted too quickly, without considering her. Offer to continue to support her through her relationship problems. Ask her to support you.

It sounds like there’s some horrible sexist, puerile and disrespectful behaviour in that group chat, and you and your friend need to stick together in dealing with it.

The only way your DP, and the entire group, can come back from this is to hold their hands up, take accountability for their behaviour (including other men in the group not challenging it), apologise to all concerned and explain what they’ve learned to take forward.

If he/they don’t. But instead (as appears) focus on the deflection of who ‘grassed’. The rationale being such messages are OK as long as they’re kept within the virtual ‘locker room’, ‘boys on tour’, ‘lads night out’, ‘bros before hoes’ male circle. And the only problem they see is if there’s a weak link in the chain. If that’s what he/they do: double down and look for someone to blame other than themselves. Then, all you women have your answer.

Hold your heads high. Set your standards high. There are plenty of much more attractive fish in the sea.

I've had private conversations with my own friends about DH being shit for not taking out the rubbish/being crap at wallpapering and perving on certain celebrities/school Dads we fancy

More posters who seen to be utterly incapable of processing analogous scenarios.

He didn't have a conversation with his mates criticising the op's house keeping skills.
He didn't have a conversation with his mates criticising the op's home decorating skills.
He didn't "perve" on celebrities.
He didn't even "perve" on women he sees around.

He expressed his opinions on their female friends/acquaintances, in their social group, re.

• whether he'd have sex with them,
• whether he thought they have good bodies
• why another man wouldn't appreciate their body enough to stay in a relationship with them (the woman in question must be a headcase)
• and finally he discussed his partner's own sister's body sleazily.

So ...... Why do have such difficulty establishing comparable behaviours?
And why are you pushing that difficulty onto another woman.

You’re shooting the messenger because you don’t want to accept that your fiancé is a vile prick.

@PollyJH just reply ‘I have not told anyone it was you but I needed to make it clear I did not snoop’ and leave it at that. She definitely wanted to get something into the open without being the ‘bad guy’. She can’t expect you to take the fall for that. But remember - this is about the men’s behaviour. Try not to get into a row with her (you and she can talk after you get to the bottom of this). Challenge the group behaviour and decide if you are happy with your relationship with partner.

Unbelievable behaviour from your DP and your friend.

Op this is exactly what your partner and the other men want. It turns all the focus off them and their black and white awful behavior. It's easier to make it about your friend but she is on your side. She wants you to know the truth so you have the ability to choose what you want for yourself. You partner wants to keep you in the dark. Your friend is trying to save you from a life where you worry about your partner all the time. What's he thinking/saying. Whats he doing on a Stag do. If you have a child you may very well be in a vunerable place where you need him to wipe your bum help you change your sanitary pad or change the sheets where you've bled through. All the while thinking what's he saying on the group chat about me. Possibly feeling pressure to have sex you don't want because that's what he sees women for. That's the reality of these men we see it day after day on here. Threads of women who have ignore these early signs or never had a friend show them so they stayed hidden for years. That's who you're living with a person who leads a double life and hides parts of himself on purpose from you because he knows you wouldn't like it. When caught out he blames everyone else. If you have a relationship problem in the future he will do the same. He hasn't the skills to take accountability. That's not a grown up. That's teenager behavior. Nothing you ever do will make him change. He will have to first see the issue and with mates like he has there isn't a issue in his eyes at all. You and your friend are the problem in his eyes.

You don't need all this drama. He's not the person you thought he was, the fact that other people would put it down to bantz is irrelevant, it does matter to you. Just walk away.

Less talking, more action. The moment you end this relationship all the drama and hassle will be history.

Personally, I think you were crazy to mention it to him, I really don't see how that was ever going to help.

Raise your bar or be back here in a few years when you’ve lost all your friends and family and he’s cheated.

@Andwhoisasking has got it spot on.