Mum of girls (Caitlin Moran) telling us mums of boys how to speak to our sons

mumsnet HQ, please get rid of the banner. She’s utterly trivial and attention seeking

I for one do not believe that boys are inherently bad.

I think one of the biggest things you can get right as a parent, whether you have boys or girls, is to instil healthy self esteem and respect for others.

The difference being that girls with low self esteem are more likely to become victims of abuse, whereas boys with self esteem are more likely to become dangerous.

I thought she hadn’t entered that debate?

Following that logic, what’s the point of discussing any topic here? Just move on with life if you disagree. Okay then. I’ll shut my mouth on the subject.

And made a career writing about not having any education or qualifications. I did laugh when I read she was 'Home educated' in the bio. I thought 'really? She's never mentioned that before. I wonder if she grew up in a council flat in Wolverhampton with 8 siblings?

She’s hurt all women by advocating for the elimination of single sex spaces

I'm waiting for her to write the first ever book about the menopause, because nobody ever talks about the menopause and it is a completely taboo subject that needs to be brought into the open by a boundary-breaking book.

It’s really shallow to have grifters and celebs talking about superficially issues. Doing the special voice and I’m listening I’m concerned demeanour
As if there’s a ready simple solution. If there were a simple solution to complex issues it’d be implemented. Media froth and indignation doesn’t solve problems it just perpetuates short term interest in complex issues

It's remarkable how much of this thread is criticism of CM for the temerity of writing about boys without having a boy, and little or none based on what she actually wrote.

Having read the piece I'd say it was a bit light-weight but given the word count that's probably not surprising. But I didn't notice anything in there that struck me as wrong or misleading. Much of it is very similar to how I treated my DS.

Completely agree.

As she has explained what it was based on, this seems singularly pointless.

Apologies as I haven't read the book but she says she 'asked dozens of experts for their advice on bringing up happier teenage boys'. Did she ask any teenage boys or young men for their take?

When topics and/or behaviour becomes an issue every media personality or grifter suddenly manifests on SM or Tv,radio
They rock up and opine on topics that know sweet fa about as if they are knowledgeable or a reliable trustworthy source
Head tilt and the special voice as they try to condense a complex multifactorial issue into a 2minute sound byte
When they get bored or the topic isn’t trending they simply disappear

I don't disagree. I just think, don't present yourself as a deep feminist thinker when you're shying away from the feminist debate of your generation because you're frit of looking narsty.

And if you do do that, be prepared for former readers to conclude you're a bit of a waste of space and spend their hard-earned on clear, intelligent and courageous thinkers like Helen Joyce, Kathleen Stock and co instead.

All I ever hear about is enraged ‘boy mums’ who can’t stand it when their little angels are challenged. And the whole ‘son’ can do no wrong but daughter is a nightmare trope is as old as the hills.

I do think it’s telling that the op has positioned herself as a ‘boy mum’ who can’t possibly take advice from someone with girls despite having a girl herself!

I don't mind if she talks about boys. I just find her writing very try hard and contrived these days. I prefer Marina Hyde and Hadley Freeman. As simple as that. Nothing to do with supporting women, just prefer to support good writers.

To be fair her book What About Men?
came our way before Adolescence in
July 2023

And on the podcast I heard her give about it, she had researched the subject thoroughly and she was very clear about the reasons why she focused on young men; and one of them was that she felt strongly that women’s lives will never improve unless men step up and do their part.

I like Caitlin Moran and I enjoy her books. I don’t agree with all of her views, but I understand her wariness about getting involved in the trans debate because once you are a known figure in the media, it’s virtually impossible to say anything on either side of the debate without becoming mired in toxicity. You do need to be made of tungsten to survive it.

Also, many women of her age with late teen and young adult children may have very personal reasons for not wishing to engage with such a divisive subject because many are already trying to negotiate deeply upsetting divisions at the very core of their families, where they try and make a firm stand on feminist principles, which their much loved dc counter with pro-trans rhetoric. It’s far from easy.

Seriously? WTF?

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. I read How To Be a Woman in my 20s and thought the bits about things I hadn't done/experienced (which at that point included motherhood) were good and insightful, but that the bits about things I had experienced were crap and over-generalised. Then I realised that therefore the odds were high that it was, in fact, all crap if you knew anything about the topic.

True at first. Not now. Now it's got to be more about moving in bien-pensant circles and being afraid of not being down wiv da kids.

And it would be career suicide to wade into the trans debate. Not everyone has the bank balance of JK Rowling.

For God’s sake don’t be so ridiculous. Why are you blaming the behaviour of some men on women?

I heard her speak about the book ages ago on Nick Grimshaw’s Dish podcast and she made a lot of sense. I don’t agree that you have to be a mother of a boy to have an opinion on how to raise boys. I have a son - any advice on how not to raise an arsehole, I’m here for it!

I think it’s safe to say that an awful lot of parents have done a monumentally shit job to account for the number of misogynistic arseholes that exist today. I was a teacher in a secondary school for years - believe me when I say, boys are the problem! We need to do something.

Some of the responses on here read like she’s touched a raw nerve.

I was waiting for this thread when I saw the banner and it has not disappointed. I’m inclined to agree with you, I did feel it was opportunistic with a show me the 🤑vibe.

(we should be less cynical but with the world such as it is, it’s tough!)

I thought the same until she admitted she's stayed out of controversial debates because she's scared: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5082839-caitlin-moran-discusses-her-absence-from-the-trans-debates

Which, fine. But don't pretend to be a ballsy and fearless thinker when you're cringing into your luxury beliefs bubble.