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AIBU?

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Original poster

Unfair contextualisation for uni entry

246 replies

helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 13:32

I'm absolutely supportive of the efforts to widen access e.g. considering applicants being the first in the family to university, receipt of free school meals, and CERTAIN contextualisation of attainment.

BUT, I don't agree with the contextualisation where a student is judged against the cohort & their school's GCSE/A-level results when that school is selective.

E.g. 'strong but not as strong as peers' applicant, who attended a highly selective school at GCSE, might have a contextualised GCSE of zero or even below/minus even if they have all 8s/9s!

I get that highly selective schools MAY provide superior teaching but, frankly, in a lot of cases - whether grammar or indie - the results are more likely a result of the school being selective in the first place.

So AIBU to think that this type of contextualisation is not helpful and, in fact, rather unfair.

OP posts:
Hollyhedge · 02/04/2025 16:29

It’s fair because it is done on basis of progress made in that school. Clearly of school has above average progress it will be easier to do better.

Goldenbear · 02/04/2025 16:28

helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 16:25

In London, where I live, 46% do - that's a high percentage, no?

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London is a different beast though - we (DH and I) both have extended family in London and we have children of similar ages, it is noticeable how intense the process is.

Original poster
helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 16:27

ghostyslovesheets · 02/04/2025 16:26

We don’t all live in London?

No, but I was giving examples from my lived experience.

OP posts:
OP posts:
ghostyslovesheets · 02/04/2025 16:26

We don’t all live in London?

Original poster
helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 16:25

ghostyslovesheets · 02/04/2025 16:18

So 70% don’t?

also why assume they are all middle class - we routinely use pupil premium plus to pay for intensive tuition for our looked after children

In London, where I live, 46% do - that's a high percentage, no?

OP posts:
Original poster
helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 16:24

Icanttakethisanymore · 02/04/2025 16:18

I think it should be based on family income, parents' education and occupation - and the school cohort only if the school has failed to send significant numbers to university.

How exactly would you suggest that was done? would it be self reported on the UCAS form? Who would validate the information?

Well, this is something that should hopefully not be too difficult in the future with digital/AI tools, and allowing access to HMRC.

I do think a national ID card/number should be introduced - would be so much easier to means test a range of things, not just contextualisation but also in relation to student loans etc and of course things like benefits.

OP posts:
Original poster
helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 16:22

Icanttakethisanymore · 02/04/2025 16:18

I think it should be based on family income, parents' education and occupation - and the school cohort only if the school has failed to send significant numbers to university.

How exactly would you suggest that was done? would it be self reported on the UCAS form? Who would validate the information?

.

OP posts:
Goldenbear · 02/04/2025 16:21

helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 16:16

Oh and here

"According to a 2023 report from the Sutton Trust, 30 per cent of children aged 11 to 16 (and 46 per cent in London) have had private tutoring."

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The parents where I live don't believe in that pushiness, it's social suicide to be more concerned with tutoring for the best grades, it's all about letting children be children around here, expressing themselves and being creative! Well, at least that is the image portrayed.

Icanttakethisanymore · 02/04/2025 16:18

I think it should be based on family income, parents' education and occupation - and the school cohort only if the school has failed to send significant numbers to university.

How exactly would you suggest that was done? would it be self reported on the UCAS form? Who would validate the information?

ghostyslovesheets · 02/04/2025 16:18

So 70% don’t?

also why assume they are all middle class - we routinely use pupil premium plus to pay for intensive tuition for our looked after children

Original poster
helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 16:16

SanCelestino · 02/04/2025 15:44

I’d like to see a source for this. My state-educated DC was never tutored.

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Oh and here

"According to a 2023 report from the Sutton Trust, 30 per cent of children aged 11 to 16 (and 46 per cent in London) have had private tutoring."

OP posts:
Goldenbear · 02/04/2025 16:15

helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 14:22

Equally, lots of middle class parents I know locally have chosen an excellent comp - but as not selective, very wide range of abilities - and have tutored. They get contextualised even though they have have parents who are doctors, lawyers, and tutored. Tutoring is probably more common in state school than in private tbh!

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Do they, that's strange as my DS hasn't had one and he went to a comp and has an Architect Director Dad and Data Security professional Mum, no tutoring though, contextual offers are not a thing, nor are they for his friends, except one, who really does qualify for a contextual offer!

Original poster
helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 16:14

SanCelestino · 02/04/2025 15:44

I’d like to see a source for this. My state-educated DC was never tutored.

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We live in an area of lots of grammar schools, including super selective, so, yes, a large number of parents do get their children tutored for 11+ etc.

And a lot of those who had offers at grammars and super selective grammars have chosen comprehensive schools instead (where they often end up in the top set).

OP posts:
SanCelestino · 02/04/2025 16:11

Breezybetty · 02/04/2025 15:57

I’d like to know where everyone is getting their tutors from. Around here you have to wait years before a tutor has space for a new child.

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Try tutor groups on Facebook if you’re happy with online.

ghostyslovesheets · 02/04/2025 16:06

I have employed one tutor - but for my youngest who is at a good school and getting 3’s in her maths mocks - not for my other two who are at university

she needs to pass maths - I’ve never been the king of parent obsessed with grade 9’s

Caravaggiouch · 02/04/2025 16:04

If you don’t think selective schooling provides an advantage then why would you send your child to a selective school?

Breezybetty · 02/04/2025 15:57

SanCelestino · 02/04/2025 15:44

I’d like to see a source for this. My state-educated DC was never tutored.

Show quote history

I’d like to know where everyone is getting their tutors from. Around here you have to wait years before a tutor has space for a new child.

SanCelestino · 02/04/2025 15:44

helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 14:22

Equally, lots of middle class parents I know locally have chosen an excellent comp - but as not selective, very wide range of abilities - and have tutored. They get contextualised even though they have have parents who are doctors, lawyers, and tutored. Tutoring is probably more common in state school than in private tbh!

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I’d like to see a source for this. My state-educated DC was never tutored.

StrawberrySquash · 02/04/2025 15:33

LindorDoubleChoc · 02/04/2025 14:45

I'm not really sure what you're asking OP. My son got an offer of ABB to read History at Bristol a couple of years ago. He was in the top set for most subjects at his fully comprehensive all boy's state school in SE London where the headline GCSE attainment across the school as a whole was notably below the London average. Are you saying, because his Dad and I are both University educated and took an interest in his education, that he should not have received a contextual offer?

In the end he got A*AB and chose a different course and different Uni anyway.

The exact same child born to parents who didn't bother/didn't have much education and didn't understand the system would have had a harder time getting those grades. So I can see why a contextual offer system might want to give that child more 'points'. But in real life it's really hard to judge for each individual child what advantages they've had with universal accuracy.

Strawberryjammam · 02/04/2025 15:05

I think there should be levels but no idea how you'd police. I went to a private school and there was a whole range of people from those who had stretched massively to send their kids there to the ones who came from generations of wealth. There was a difference in outcomes too that I think was driven mostly by parents understanding the system.

I also had friends at grammar schools and comprehensives that I would say were of a similar level of intelligence (we all went to the same primary so I am confident in this) and the biggest indicator of results at all schools was how much the parents understood how to get their kids good results. I should be able to do this better than my parents could because of my experience but didn't benefit much from it.

However, the biggest indicators of success after school were money and connections. Those were spread amongst all the schools but you'd generally go a different route driven by background. Having money and connections opens lifelong doors that school results don't.

ghostyslovesheets · 02/04/2025 14:53

My eldest 2 went to our local comp which was either RI or inadequate the whole time they were there

DD 1 had a contextual offer of AAB from AAA hardly unfair and she gained AAAA* anyway - her best mate got into Cambridge with an offer of ABB but got higher anyway

of their entire friend group only one other went to uni - so anything that makes it possible for kids in schools with low attainment and low expectations is a bonus in my book.

i work with care experienced young people for whom it’s a godsend

verysmellyjelly · 02/04/2025 14:52

Contextual offers should be only for poverty and care leavers.

verysmellyjelly · 02/04/2025 14:51

As a disabled person I’m offended by the idea that disabled students need contextual offers. I was one of the strongest students in my sixth form and at uni despite myriad challenges (ND and physical). I honestly feel it’s insulting to suggest we can’t be considered on the same playing field as everyone else. We are still people!

Ace56 · 02/04/2025 14:50

helparoundthehouse · 02/04/2025 14:44

Maybe it's not called contextualisation but I understand many universities will compare how you perform against your GCSE cohort? See my previous posts upthread...

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No, we really don’t! If you go to a private school you’ll get the standard offer. Those who go to state schools and who hit contextual markers (whether they’re to do with home address, school attended, parents education etc) get a lower offer.

It’s that simple! We don’t have time/capacity to be looking up the ‘average’ grade profile of students from every single school.