Page 3 | Restaurant Takings vs School VAT

Another76543 · 03/04/2025 08:03

ChorusOfDisapproval · 03/04/2025 07:59

VAT was originally designed to be a tax on luxury items. Private school fees are a luxury, not an essential and therefore should attract VAT.

A decent education should never be seen as a luxury. State education has failed many children. In any case, VAT is not a tax on luxury. The previous tax on luxury was abolished. Toilet paper is subject to VAT, but caviar is not.

ChorusOfDisapproval · 03/04/2025 07:59

VAT was originally designed to be a tax on luxury items. Private school fees are a luxury, not an essential and therefore should attract VAT.

Original poster

PollyG23 · 03/04/2025 07:50

RockyRogue1001 · 03/04/2025 00:07

I'm soooooooo sorry to read your diamond shoes are too tight.

My heart bleeds for all of you and the choices you freely chose to take, and the fact you have to live with the consequences you knew you were taking. Adulting is so hard.

Interesting thread to start @PollyG23 on the day the bils rise and the COL rises.
So tell me, are you a Tory shill? Just here to wind things up just a little bit?

Mmm, bitter much @RockyRogue1001 ?My post was just speculating downturn in restaurant trade and correlation with VAT on school fees. The UK economy is 2/3 driven by consumer spending so the immediate multiplier effect of people having more money in their pockets is massively reduced if that same money is going straight to the govt instead which, with the best will in the world, will never be able to move that money on without a haircut for admin/bureaucracy. It’s is poor use of money.

Tbh school fees or otherwise, and aside from use in tracking business fraud which i get, I’m not really a big fan of VAT in general- i don’t really see the justification in paying the government just for buying stuff- what’s their input in the process been? It disproportionately affects the poorest in our society for whom VAT is the highest % of their disposable income. I also think it’s too high atm- the UK started paying VAT when it joined the EEC in 1973 @ 10% we’re now at 20%, no wonder we have a COL crisis.

FWIW i actually voted Green at the GE so way off! Posting date entirely coincidental- i just had some free time so went on MN.

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Swiftie1878 · 03/04/2025 07:17

People still have money, even those who scream that they don’t.
Try getting tickets to a live music gig these days - ticket prices are sky high, yet sell out in minutes. Including accessible zones for the disabled. At those concerts the food stall and merch stand queues are relentlessly long.
Flight costs to anywhere are very high these days too, yet all sell out.

If we’re all so skint, how?….

Another76543 · 03/04/2025 07:10

RockyRogue1001 · 03/04/2025 00:07

I'm soooooooo sorry to read your diamond shoes are too tight.

My heart bleeds for all of you and the choices you freely chose to take, and the fact you have to live with the consequences you knew you were taking. Adulting is so hard.

Interesting thread to start @PollyG23 on the day the bils rise and the COL rises.
So tell me, are you a Tory shill? Just here to wind things up just a little bit?

“My heart bleeds for all of you and the choices you freely chose to take, and the fact you have to live with the consequences you knew you were taking. Adulting is so hard.”

That’s the point. It’s no real hardship to cut back on spending on things like this. It’s an easy saving to make. However, it does affect small business owners and their employees when people spend less.

RockyRogue1001 · 03/04/2025 00:07

I'm soooooooo sorry to read your diamond shoes are too tight.

My heart bleeds for all of you and the choices you freely chose to take, and the fact you have to live with the consequences you knew you were taking. Adulting is so hard.

Interesting thread to start @PollyG23 on the day the bils rise and the COL rises.
So tell me, are you a Tory shill? Just here to wind things up just a little bit?

Original poster

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:54

Another76543 · 02/04/2025 23:22

If a family with children went out once a week, they could easily spend £150 with mains, desserts, drinks, service charge etc (around £650 per month). That’s an easy saving to make.

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Unf spot on for the south east- very normal and would not even be a “fancy” restaurant

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Original poster

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:50

Another76543 · 02/04/2025 23:16

I know lots of private school families doing this. It’s definitely affecting local businesses. The first things to be cut back are exactly what you say - eating out, lunches (some takeaway places in London charge £15-18 for a nice salad lunch), coffees, clothing etc. On top of that, families aren’t replacing cars. In reality, giving up any of these things isn’t exactly a hardship (driving into work in an older car and taking your lunch isn’t a hardship in any way). It’s an easy way to save a lot of money per month. Kids at our school often go to the local cafe for a hot chocolate/milkshake. The cost of that is now around £5. A lot are now only going once a week rather than 2-3 times per week. Again, it’s no real hardship. Whilst it’s no hardship to those families, it is affecting small business owners.

I would say that VAT on fees has definitely had an impact, but it’s not the only thing. Business rates, NIC and living wage changes has made things too expensive. With higher mortgages/bills, families are stretched enough. They can’t afford nice extras any more.

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Agree @Another76543 I’m seeing this too which i do think is contracting the local (and hence national) economy.

That’s great savings@partyoffivvve I’m sure your kids will appreciate your economising.

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echt · 02/04/2025 23:34

PollyG23 · 01/04/2025 23:18

Restaurant takings are down YTD and most commentators are saying that it is due to NICS and min wage but surely a big factor is due to the VAT on school fees which is eating into middle class discretionary spending- why is no one mentioning this? (Or maybe I just haven’t seen anything?) What else is getting eaten into? (No pun intended)

The lengths the whining school fees VAT crowd will go to keep this one going.

Original poster

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:31

FairMindedMaiden · 02/04/2025 23:13

@PollyG23 We are moving to Canada, it’s 3-4 years and also through existing global employer. We’ve been considering it for some time and initially decided against it, but this last 6 months tipped us back the other way. When I read Phillipsons post around ‘our children’ we knew we made the right decision. House rented out from August 😬

Edited

Ah great- wishing you all the best @FairMindedMaiden I’m sure it’ll be an amazing experience for you and your family! Definitely feels like we’re the wrong demographic for this govt unf

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justasking111 · 02/04/2025 23:30

Friends with kids went to Legoland hotel last week, food grim and very expensive. Did the tour, rides the place was very quiet.

They spent one night in a lodge on a farm. Collected their own eggs for breakfast, fed the pigs and other animals. That was the best part of their break.

Other friends with kids join national trust, zoos, etc pay monthly DD. They take picnics only buy ice-cream.

Money is tight

Blankscreen · 02/04/2025 23:26

I've said this for months.

Our school fees went up £400 a month.

We've stopped the takeaways and eating out. Simple.

Other people I know have stopped their cleaner or the reduced the dog walker etc.

Not everyone has second homes to sell fgs.

Combined with lots of redundancies it's really tough for lots of businesses.

Another76543 · 02/04/2025 23:25

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:22

I did say for those already in the system. I think there’s another chat on the go about whether to start with private school education or not and this is where the real denting will come from (IMO) as people who may have entered will now not (maybe they’ll just prop up the restaurant industry instead 😉)

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Exactly this. Those already in the system will try their best to keep their children in their schools by reducing household expenditure.

Another76543 · 02/04/2025 23:22

RatedDoingMagic · 01/04/2025 23:27

Really, no.

If a family has 2 children at a £25kpa private school that has just gone up to £30kpa from VAT the school fees budget has just rocketed by £10,000pa. You do not address a £10,000pa deficit by cutting back on restaurant spend. Who spends anything like that in restaurants - £833 per month?

You would be more likely to sell the holiday home in cornwall or forego the skiing holidays for a few years - and might well increase the restaurant spend as a relatively cheap way to have a treat with the leftover funds thus released

If a family with children went out once a week, they could easily spend £150 with mains, desserts, drinks, service charge etc (around £650 per month). That’s an easy saving to make.

milveycrohn · 02/04/2025 23:22

The cost of living has risen generally.
NICS and min wage also affect council wages and so council tax will have gone up, etc Utilitues have gone up, etc
People have less discretionary expenditure and are cutting back on non essentials such as eating out.
VAT on school fees may be a part of that but very few People send their children to private schools, so I personally believe it to be only a small part of why people are cutting back.
NICS and min wage will affect restaurant costs and some nay become inviable.

Original poster

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:22

HowardTJMoon · 02/04/2025 22:21

So the incessant screeds about how VAT on private schools would lead to the near-collapse of the entire educational system turned out to be baseless fear-mongering? I'm shocked. Shocked.

Well not that shocked.

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I did say for those already in the system. I think there’s another chat on the go about whether to start with private school education or not and this is where the real denting will come from (IMO) as people who may have entered will now not (maybe they’ll just prop up the restaurant industry instead 😉)

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minnienono · 02/04/2025 23:20

Really??? Could do better . Only 6% of dc are in private schools. Based on observation alone, the majority of people dining out regularly are probably too old to have school aged children anyway.

Another76543 · 02/04/2025 23:16

partyoffivvve · 02/04/2025 22:01

I have 3 kids in private school. We are absolutely cutting back on non essential spending - including our teens non-essential spending. So between the 5 of us it is probably close to £1000 - £1200 a month or possibly even more that we are saving in my case (and my DH) by taking lunch to work (instead of buying from an independent) never buying coffee and not eating out as a family weekly and in my kids case not spending it on bubble tea / matcha / ice cream or buying bits and pieces from the high street. I get annoyed with my dd if she gets the bus to school everyday (it’s a 45 minute walk). No holiday home here, or inheritance. Just a huge number of hours at work (70 last week).

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I know lots of private school families doing this. It’s definitely affecting local businesses. The first things to be cut back are exactly what you say - eating out, lunches (some takeaway places in London charge £15-18 for a nice salad lunch), coffees, clothing etc. On top of that, families aren’t replacing cars. In reality, giving up any of these things isn’t exactly a hardship (driving into work in an older car and taking your lunch isn’t a hardship in any way). It’s an easy way to save a lot of money per month. Kids at our school often go to the local cafe for a hot chocolate/milkshake. The cost of that is now around £5. A lot are now only going once a week rather than 2-3 times per week. Again, it’s no real hardship. Whilst it’s no hardship to those families, it is affecting small business owners.

I would say that VAT on fees has definitely had an impact, but it’s not the only thing. Business rates, NIC and living wage changes has made things too expensive. With higher mortgages/bills, families are stretched enough. They can’t afford nice extras any more.

7393827gsjsbdh · 02/04/2025 23:15

neverknowinglyunreasonable · 01/04/2025 23:19

I stubbed my toe earlier and I'm pretty sure it was due to VAT on private school fees and yet the media are too scared to cover it

amazing

Original poster

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 23:13

mindutopia · 02/04/2025 22:03

We are very comfortable, but ours are in state school. So VAT not affecting us at all.

Restaurant takings are down because prices have increased due to general cost of living increases over the past few years and poor quality. Dh sells professional kitchen components to some of the higher end restaurants. Raw materials (metal costs) have gone up hugely, in large part due to Brexit, which is passed on to the restaurant and they no doubt must have to raise menu prices.

All the restaurants around here are struggling for staff, the food quality is blah and service isn’t great. I can think of only 1 restaurant locally I would pay to eat in. Otherwise, it’s all a bit shit and at £80 easily for 2 adults and 2 children, that’s nearly my weekly shopping and I could cook something so much nicer myself. Why go out? My middle class self is quite fussy and I’d rather eat my own cooking, even with no VAT to pay.

This is an interesting point @mindutopia I hadn’t considered the increase in base metal commodity prices as impacting the restaurant trade but of course they do- durr!
Kwym about quality of food too!

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FairMindedMaiden · 02/04/2025 23:13

@PollyG23 We are moving to Canada, it’s 3-4 years and also through existing global employer. We’ve been considering it for some time and initially decided against it, but this last 6 months tipped us back the other way. When I read Phillipsons post around ‘our children’ we knew we made the right decision. House rented out from August 😬

TRexHamster · 02/04/2025 23:10

HowardTJMoon · 02/04/2025 22:43

Forgive me but I'm trying to understand what you're saying. You've got DCs doing GCSEs. Without the VAT you'd have had enough money to pay for them to complete their GCSEs, continue on to 6th form and still have some left over for university.

With the VAT the school fees have increased so massively that you've barely got enough to afford for them to finish their GCSEs with nothing left over.

Maybe I'm really rubbish at maths but I can't make that add up, unless the school is increasing its fees far in excess of 20%. Can you help me to understand the numbers involved here?

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Over £10pa extra - over 3 years, so £30k+ - doesn't leave enough for 2 years of the same at the end. HTH.

Original poster

PollyG23 · 02/04/2025 22:58

FairMindedMaiden · 02/04/2025 20:42

It’s only been one term of fees and it hasn’t negatively influenced us eating out. Saying that, the education tax policy has given us the final push to leave the U.K. (at least for a few years), so I guess we won’t be eating out in the UK at all during that time.

Interesting- where are you going @FairMindedMaiden? We are also considering leaving for this govt term. Both me +DP working at global companies so a transfer would be easy

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nicenicemaybe · 02/04/2025 22:52

Well our local pubs are rammed Sunday lunchtime…you have to book in advance a few weeks ahead ! I live in an area where many children are at private school!
I live in the South East,if that helps.

FairMindedMaiden · 02/04/2025 22:50

HowardTJMoon · 02/04/2025 22:45

It's not a tax paid by children. It's a tax paid by their parents, guardians, grandparents etc.

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The tax is applied to education services provided to children aged between 5 and 19 (for now), it is paid by who pays the fees which would generally not be the children.