To think traditional English food is overrated?

I know nothing about the author so I’m not commenting on her, but you said Italian-American recipe which I took to mean Italian-American food which is decidedly not the same thing as Italian. And which just like British-Italian food, has also been altered to American tastes and availability of ingredients, as shown by the article I linked to which demonstrates some of the differences. And again there’s nothing wrong with that. If you mean Italian recipes by an American of Italian heritage then my comments do not apply.

Debi lives in Italy and is married to an Italian. They aren’t cooking Italian American food.Just making the point that English foreign recipes even translated ones are made for a British audience and will take out ingredients or substitute for other things that are easily available. Debi does deal with that and is authentic. You don’t have to believe me but our publishing industry does factor in how easy ingredients are to get hold of and will always have that in mind. I love American Italian food too. I cook a great unauthentic carbonara which is unmistakably American and delicious.

I agree entirely with Jay Rayner on that. I was just curious to know why that poster seemed to think that Italian-British food was altered to our tastes (Which it is) and that the same wasn’t also true of Italian-American cuisine.

And there’s nothing wrong with countries altering food to their own tastes. Imo it’s one of the most clever and exciting things that humans have done. Is it always great? No but it gives us such wonderful diversity of food, encourages experimentation and is much more freeing than deciding that you cannot possibly cook a version of carbonara for dinner because you can only have bacon in and not guanciale. Even though it’d still taste good.

@BeaAndBen , there are inauthentic versions of food though.
I can think of foods that bear little resemblance to the real thing.

And no I wouldn’t turn to Jamie Oliver for authentic Italian food either but we have our own Italian/ Italian heritage chefs here too.

Personally I think that authenticity is overrated because Italy’s cuisine varies by region even by town/village and would have been influenced by what ingredients were in their cupboard. How one Nonna made something could be completely different from the way that another a mile away made the same dish. Italian cuisine has also been altered by foods like tomatoes and chillies that were introduced from the new world. So what really is authentic?

comes from the days when there was what there was to eat. No chilli, garlic, lemongrass etc. But meat, suet, root veg was available. Some people think Italian is just pizza. Gary Eats on YT goes to some fantastic places. But what do some people consider 'British food'?

Jay Rayner writes about “authentic” food in his most recent book (and in a number of columns over the years)
He calls bullshit.

Truly “authentic” is the food of the poor, using every bit of the animal and padding it out with whatever is available to make it go as far as possible. There are no “authentic” recipes because every area - every family - has their own accepted Correct Version of a dish.

Adapting a recipe to available ingredients, tweaking it to a palate, elevating it by using nicer or more expensive or more sustainable ingredients is more important when it comes to food than “authenticity.”

I don’t want to kill a dozen songbirds to have on the paella, ta, however “authentic.”

Can't you cook? Don't you eat any vegetables?

Admittedly, we eat food from everywhere, but I can assure you that we very rarely eat beige stodge when I cook British food.

So is Italian American food. It isn’t the same thing as Italian. It’s also shaped by American tastes, culture and accessibility of ingredients. Likewise Tex-Mex which is quite different from real Mexican food. Every country alters other countries’ cuisines to their preferences And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, I’m more interested in what tastes good than what is authentic, but Italian-American food is no more (or less) authentic than British Italian cuisine.

And you can probably get genuine Italian recipe books which have been translated or at least written by Italians as opposed to Italian-Americans.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/sep/18/what-do-real-italians-think-about-new-yorks-italian-food

Give it three to four weeks and it will all be locally grown!

I am checking the asparagus bed almost daily in the hopes of shoots - I need to get the nematodes on as soon as the shoots appear to protect from slugs. Best seasonal crop of the year.

To all those insulting British food outright - I don’t like aniseed, lemongrass or coconut. Do I call Thai food crap? No, because it isn’t. It’s just generally not to my palate.

Yes, I can’t read Italian and it’s more authentic and accessible than our efforts certainly Debi Mazar over Jamie Oliver any day of the week. Our recipes are adapted for our tastes.

Yeah that's my kind of food. Don't mind middle Eastern food also.

Why would you choose an Italian American recipe if you want authentic Italian food?

It was kind of my point though. I wish we'd see more of those dishes that didn't also include chili, as it just kills all the other flavours.
Mediterranean cuisine is probably my favourite, including some North African dishes. Ras el Hanout is maybe my favourite spice blend.

There's certainly plenty of spice in British condiments, so I wouldn't say we're a spice averse nation.

Traditional British dishes with spice that I make include devilled kidneys, kedgeree, coronation chicken (made properly is a joy), spiced beef, I use blade mace in terrine, and nutmeg and cloves in bread sauce and white sauces, mulled punches with star anise and cinnamon, Christmas pudding and mince pies and stuffing all use spice, I could go on!

We may not have much chill heat in many of our dishes, but spice, certainly.

Most of the foreign food available has been adapted for British tastes or doesn’t even exist in the actual cuisine. I love Italian food in Italy but what we get isn’t the same. So if I cook Italian food I tend to go for an Italian American recipe from someone like Debi Mazar rather than one of our cooks. Same can be said for many cuisines, better to cook at home from an authentic recipe.

Don’t get me started on Nando’s, truly bland food, oven chips, reheated chicken and spicy sauce. Daylight robbery.

My list of traditional British food is:
Breakfast - porridge, full English, poached egg on toast, kedgeree, kippers
Lunch - salad, soup or sandwiches
Dinner - full Roast Dinner (Beef, Chicken, Lamb or Pork), Toad-in-the-hole with mash peas and gravy, Sausages with mash and onion gravy, Cottage pie, Shepherds pie, Lancashire Hotpot, Steak & Kidney pie, Steak & Mushroom pie, Chicken Leek & Ham pie, Beef stew with dumplings and Fish &Chips
Sides - buttery mashed potatoes with mustard, steamed seasonal vegetables, braised cabbage, cauliflower cheese, and coleslaw
Desserts - Apple/cherry pie, custard, Lemon meringue pie, Queen of puddings, Bread & Butter pudding, Sussex Pond pudding, Summer pudding, Chocolate self-saucing pudding, Baked Apples, Banana custard and split, Sticky toffee pudding, Poor Knights of Windsor pudding, Strawberry ice cream, Strawberries & cream, Eton Mess and Lemon tart

However, our “traditional” food as a nation has changed over the past 60 years, so I would say that the following have become very common in British households, too:
Breakfast - Muesli, Greek Yogurt with fruit and /or nuts, Avo-on-to, French toast with berries and maple syrup, Pancakes with bacon and maple syrup, chia pudding
Lunch - filled wraps (chicken, salad, Hummus), Pitta bread with dips, Caesar salad, Greek salad, Tuna salad Niçoise
Dinner - Pasta Bolognese, Lasagne, Pizza, BBQ, Chicken Katsu Curry, Pork Katsu Curry, Chicken Tikka Masala, Chicken Korma, pork or beef Bulgogi with Bao buns, Green and Red Thai Chicken Curry, Chicken Satay, Stir fry, Gumbo, Jambalaya, Enchiladas, Fajitas and Burritos
And yes, most are cooked from scratch except the specialist ingredients (I don’t make my own Thai Curry Paste or Korean marinade) and we eat all of these as a family throughout the year, along with some fusion meals that I make up as I go along!

Mainly agree on the mains but I think British cakes and puddings are great.

I think you might be right @RampantIvy!

I do think it's just lazy thinking on all sides, I taught my children when they were tiny to never say food was horrible or disgusting, merely, 'not to their taste'. They've grown up with wide tastes anyway thankfully. I've had some pretty disgusting food from many different cuisines but that was entirely down to execution (and yes, I did eat it because when someone feeds you, you eat it!).

Re the spicing, French, Italian, Japanese (I could go on) use very little spice, and rely on local food traditions and ingredients treated well, Argentinian food uses very little spice, no-one goes on about how rubbish it is. I'm not sure why lack of spice is seen as a terrible British affliction...

It's a very strange attitude, I imagine it comes from the fact we have lost much of our connection to the land and food traditions in the UK, there's definitely been a resurgence of interest in the last 15/20 years, but I do think many home cooks have become de-skilled and people are not knowledgeable enough to really understand what British food is having been exposed to less than good examples (which, let's be honest, are not difficult to find!).

I would encourage the naysayers to open their minds though, they might be pleasantly surprised.

We are good at desserts. Apple crumble, Victoria sponge, Eton mess, trifle, there are hundreds of examples.

Everything else, not so much.

For examples of food with flavour that isn't spicy: Greek, Turkish, a lot of Middle Eastern outside India (think chickpeas, kidney beans, mint, spinach, stews).

Spice isnt necessarily chilli heat though. It's tamarind, cumin, coriander, cloves, ginger, mustard.... Just as there is no such thing as curry. It's a very reductionist term.

I accept that my taste buds have been numbed but that's what happens when you are brought up with spices from birth.

You sound like my dearly departed grandma, who refused to eat anything 'brown or black people' ate. You do realise the sushi you 'handle' is predominantly rice based?

I dont like fish and chips to greasy.
Alot of English foods are bland.
I dont eat chocolate either.

Teisen lap sounds delicious @KimberleyClark

I will definitely be making this.

We lead the world in beautifully cooked food often with a budget in mind . Roast Beef and Yorkshire pudding ,Steak and chips ,shepherds pie. mmm feel hungry now ,puddings galore .Sponge and custard ,apple crumble ,Rice pud Lemon meringue .Also cooked Breakfast .All to die for .