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AIBU?

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To think traditional English food is overrated?

412 replies

ThatJoyousCyanReader · 01/04/2025 20:50

I’ve always heard people say English food is bland or uncreative, and to be honest, I kind of see their point. Apart from a good roast dinner or fish and chips, what actually stands out? AIBU to think that other cuisines just do it better?

OP posts:
ohdrearydrearyme · 02/04/2025 15:48

Notateacheranymore · 01/04/2025 21:30

The other important factor is that, because of the climate in this country, before the advent of technology such as artificial refrigeration, we didn’t need to use spices to hide the unpleasantness of food that has degraded in a hot, humid environment. So, the flavours that we have are of the actual foodstuffs - the meat, the potatoes, the vegetables, and these all have very mild flavour profiles. Compared to the vibrant herbs and spices typically used in Southern Europe and Middle and East Asia, I understand the perception of “blandness”. It takes as much getting used to adopting those cuisines that we have taken to our hearts in this country.

Sorry, but I can't let this one stand uncontested ...

First of all, this is not a pop at you. This claim appears time and time again, but is completely wrong, and I find it fascinating. I'm writing this in the hope that others might find it fascinating too.

I've lived for extended periods in different places round the world, have a background in history, and a great interest in food.

It is a myth that spices were/are used to hide the unpleasantness of degraded food in a hot humid climate.
The places that use spices in abundance do so for a variety of reasons, among them:

  • they grow locally and are readily and cheaply available, or:
  • they don't grow locally, and are/were a prestige item that allowed one to flaunt one's wealth, and/or:
  • people believed or still believe that certain foods have "heating" or "cooling" properties and use spices to help balance this out. This goes all the way back to ancient Greek medical theories (google humoral medicine if you're interested), was a widespread belief throughout Europe for centuries and did influenceEuropean eating habits, and is still a common belief in the daily eating and cooking practices of large chunks of the world (India and China among others, although which foods to thought be heating and cooling are not always consistent from one country to the next).

In India, for example, people routinely do things like soak whole mangoes in water before eating them to "reduce their heatiness".
In China I have been scolded by random strangers for eating peanuts or toast (both allegedly "heating") when it looked to them that I had a cold (actually nose streaming in reaction to pollution...).
What I'm getting at is that the average person routinely believes all this stuff and chooses and seasons their food accordingly, often by using spices.

In countries where it is hot and humid, food is not given a chance to degrade, or the "degrading" is done in a controlled manner.
I lived in China back before pretty much anyone had a fridge at home (and those who had one didn't really trust it or really use it) and there were no supermarkets. Fish and chicken were bought at the market immediately before using, and they killed the animal for you if you didn't want to take it home and do it yourself. A lot of meats and fish were preserved by being dried, either bought that way already or people did it themselves, hanging them outside during the colder months.
In India, heat and humidity are/were used to "degrade" food in a controlled manner. The milk bought in the morning couldn't be preserved due to lack of refrigeration, but you boiled it, scooped the cream off the top and used it directly in cooking or turned it into ghee, which does not go rancid at room temperature. The remaining milk is turned into yoghurt, using room temperature heat to complete the process, or its turned into sweets or, in Rajasthan, soured deliberately in the sun to make a popular drink, etc.

In the south, where it is even more hot and humid, the weather is used to help making a huge variety of fermented dishes that are pretty much everyday food, such as dosas, idlis and so on.

In none of these places are spices needed to cover up the taste of rancid or degraded food.

Spices were highly prestigious and used liberally in European cooking in the past, including that of the UK. They were extremely expensive and pretty much the preserve of the extremely wealthy, who were using them in their food to impress and definitely not in a financial position where they needed to hide the taste of degraded or rancid food.

The cost of and demand for spices was so high, including in the UK, that there was huge European competition to gain access to the places where they were grown. However, once access had been gained, colonies had been claimed, and spices came down in price and were thus more obtainable to those who were not the super rich , their prestige value declined and "high society" started to shun their use, with the middle class following suit. There were other reasons as well for the decline in popularity of spices in Europe, including, among others, the influence of Calvinism and a distrust of spices as something that would "inflame the passions.)
The decline in the use of spices even occurred among UK colonists living in India during the Raj. At the beginning they ate food spiced in the Indian manner, but the popularity of spicing fell at the same time as its popularity declined back in the UK (although obviously there were exceptions and food was often still more spiced than "back home". )

This move away from spices did not happen in the same way in other parts of the world, which is why, for example, Morocco still cooks with a lot of spices whereas Spain now cooks with a lot less than it used to.

On a final note, the earlier more extensive use of spices in European cooking still remains apparent in their liberal use in festive food, which tends to change much more slowly than everyday food.
All the cinnamon, ginger, etc. in Christmas foods such as Christmas cake, gingerbread, Stollen, Pfeffernüsse, etc. etc. serve as a sort of cultural legacy pointing at their past use and former prestige.

Finally, more on topic:
Perhaps slightly controversial, but as a non UK person who lived there several years and also lived for several years in Japan, I always found it strange the extent to which Japanese food is praised when it truly has a quite limited range of flavors and ingredients. Which is not surprising, as traditionally the country wss very poor and most foods were scarce. But people rave in appreciation about Japanese food.
And at the same time they slate English food for having a quite limited range of flavors and ingredients....

Lalaghja · 02/04/2025 15:19

It’d definitely not overrated, it’s already got such a bad reputation, how can it be overrated?
I would say it’s massively underrated!

RampantIvy · 02/04/2025 15:16

KnittedFerret · 02/04/2025 14:30

My house, daily.

I'm assuming your parent was a shit cook?

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2025 14:31

Frowningprovidence · 02/04/2025 13:57

I'd forgotten all about boiled veg from school dinners.

I've been trying to find out why all the veg was boiled. It seems to be a mix of boiling was different in victorian times (tougher veg, much less water, lower heat) coal fires, and fats rationing from the war.
It also sounds most veg was eaten in soupy/stews rather than a boiled sidem

It looks like victoriana food had dyes added to it to make it bright!

How many of you have eaten chicken cooked on a wood fire? I mean genuinely. Just wrapped up and put in coals with herbs and maybe lemon?

Remember wealthy Victorians grew lemons in greenhouses in the UK from the 1840s. They were not purely just imported if had the means to grow them here.

.

KnittedFerret · 02/04/2025 14:30

Alllll · 02/04/2025 13:43

Where are earth are you eating that’s serving boiled, unseasoned vegetables?

Maybe once, at a bad cook’s house, you’ve been unlucky. But why would you go back?

My house, daily.

RampantIvy · 02/04/2025 14:24

ShakeNvacStevens · 02/04/2025 13:59

I can't watch Adam Richman Eats Britain without drooling...quality ingredients cooked well are delicious in any cuisine.

There have been loads of cookery shows where TV cooks have toured the length and breadth of Britain making British dishes from local ingredients. The Hairy Bikers being one of many recent examples of this. Also, The Two Fat Ladies, Rick Stein and Mary Berry among others.

I didn't spot any boiled beige food. Do the boiled beige food posters live in a cave?

ShakeNvacStevens · 02/04/2025 13:59

I can't watch Adam Richman Eats Britain without drooling...quality ingredients cooked well are delicious in any cuisine.

Frowningprovidence · 02/04/2025 13:57

I'd forgotten all about boiled veg from school dinners.

I've been trying to find out why all the veg was boiled. It seems to be a mix of boiling was different in victorian times (tougher veg, much less water, lower heat) coal fires, and fats rationing from the war.
It also sounds most veg was eaten in soupy/stews rather than a boiled sidem

It looks like victoriana food had dyes added to it to make it bright!

Alllll · 02/04/2025 13:43

AubernFable · 02/04/2025 13:22

Just my experience of food from the UK and Ireland: I can cook, I just don’t cook food from those (my) cultures because nobody would eat it, as we’re used to Asian, Middle Eastern, and Caribbean flavours etc.

I have eaten homemade and homegrown food here, but I haven’t been into pubs, so not really. It’s not like it’s all bad, but food is not something I’d miss if I never went back home.

I love vegetables and flavourful salads too, and that’s part of my issue with local food- boiled and steamed, unseasoned carrots, potatoes, and the like aren’t for me.

Do you not have much experience with other cultures and their cuisine?
Are you a seasoning dodger?
Can you really not see that a lot folks from the UK still eat like there are rations in place despite being well off?

Where are earth are you eating that’s serving boiled, unseasoned vegetables?

Maybe once, at a bad cook’s house, you’ve been unlucky. But why would you go back?

KnittedFerret · 02/04/2025 13:38

I love vegetables and flavourful salads too
Me too
, and that’s part of my issue with local food- boiled and steamed, unseasoned carrots, potatoes, and the like aren’t for me.
I prefer them unseasoned and not buggered about with.

RampantIvy · 02/04/2025 13:30

AubernFable · 02/04/2025 13:22

Just my experience of food from the UK and Ireland: I can cook, I just don’t cook food from those (my) cultures because nobody would eat it, as we’re used to Asian, Middle Eastern, and Caribbean flavours etc.

I have eaten homemade and homegrown food here, but I haven’t been into pubs, so not really. It’s not like it’s all bad, but food is not something I’d miss if I never went back home.

I love vegetables and flavourful salads too, and that’s part of my issue with local food- boiled and steamed, unseasoned carrots, potatoes, and the like aren’t for me.

Do you not have much experience with other cultures and their cuisine?
Are you a seasoning dodger?
Can you really not see that a lot folks from the UK still eat like there are rations in place despite being well off?

I love vegetables and flavourful salads too, and that’s part of my issue with local food- boiled and steamed, unseasoned carrots, potatoes, and the like aren’t for me.

I don't cook like that, and no, I'm not a seasoning dodger. I don't think that there is any cuisine that I have tried that I didn't like.

I have a whole cupboard full of regularly used herbs and spices. I go to a lot of food festivals and continental markets. I regularly cook Asian and Mediterranean dishes.

We avoid holidaying in "Brits abroad" type places as we like to immerse ourselves in the local culture, eat local food and drink local wines.

I like food that has lots of flavour and am very defensive of the blanket statement that all British food is beige mush because it isn't.

Badly cooked food is badly cooked food wherever you are in the world.

Alllll · 02/04/2025 13:28

Chicken tikka masala is delicious.

AubernFable · 02/04/2025 13:22

RampantIvy · 02/04/2025 13:09

I don't think I have ever been served beige boring mush.

Can't you cook?
Have you never eaten at a gastro pub or anywhere that specialises in cooking with fresh local produce?

Are you a vegetable dodger?

Your blanket statement is so untrue that it just shows up how uneducated and unimaginative you are.

Just my experience of food from the UK and Ireland: I can cook, I just don’t cook food from those (my) cultures because nobody would eat it, as we’re used to Asian, Middle Eastern, and Caribbean flavours etc.

I have eaten homemade and homegrown food here, but I haven’t been into pubs, so not really. It’s not like it’s all bad, but food is not something I’d miss if I never went back home.

I love vegetables and flavourful salads too, and that’s part of my issue with local food- boiled and steamed, unseasoned carrots, potatoes, and the like aren’t for me.

Do you not have much experience with other cultures and their cuisine?
Are you a seasoning dodger?
Can you really not see that a lot folks from the UK still eat like there are rations in place despite being well off?

CasperGutman · 02/04/2025 13:17

If you've 'always' heard English food described as 'bland' and 'uncreative' and you agree with that assessment, then it isn't overrated is it? It's accurately rated.

Personally I find it to be rather underrated.

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2025 13:12

Commonsense22 · 02/04/2025 10:45

I hate the trend of saying everything is "bland" without being full of spice chili. I feel people's taste buds have been numbed by all the heat that is disguising all the flavours and there's no going back.

British food was designed to cater to cold weather, filling up workers after long days in cold harsh conditions.
Obviously, shepherd's pie doesn't work so well in Thailand or Portugal.

I enjoy mild spice but don't tolerate heavy spice. I enjoy many cuisines but British food has its place.
On a cold winter's evening a good shepherd's pie is great.

The climate has such an impact on what you desire. As does the type of labour you do.

Just reading this week about coal miners in Cumbria and how they had jam in sandwiches rather than cheese and meat because after a few hours it went rancid. And because the climate and work doesn't really lend itself to the work available. If you are labouring hard in cold weather, you don't want certain things. Equally out British love of cold food (other places laugh at cold lunches) reflect climate and time saving /labour /energy saving qualities (cold food is cheaper and easier than cooking from scratch).

RampantIvy · 02/04/2025 13:09

AubernFable · 02/04/2025 12:53

Beige, mushy, boiled food- no thanks.

I don't think I have ever been served beige boring mush.

Can't you cook?
Have you never eaten at a gastro pub or anywhere that specialises in cooking with fresh local produce?

Are you a vegetable dodger?

Your blanket statement is so untrue that it just shows up how uneducated and unimaginative you are.

chakrakkhan · 02/04/2025 13:03

If you can’t cook very well, just say that. There’s no need for English food to be bland and boring so you’re doing something wrong.

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2025 12:57

Goldenbear · 02/04/2025 09:30

How's Scandinavian food worse than English food. Have you spent a significant amount of time in a Scandinavian country having every day food? My extended family in a Scandinavian country love English cheddar they like the shop bought basic stuff as well. However, maybe it is your taste buds but I wouldn't say it is any worse or better than English food.

Scandinavian food is amazing. Dill and fish. Last year me and my Dutch friend went to a fish restaurant in Copenhagen as her brother had bought her vouchers for it saying it was amazing. Turned out both of us were secretly dreading it as we are fish fans. But it was amazing. And yes I've had incredible meals in Stockholm before. Also see Iceland which isn't Scandinavian but was Danish controlled for many years. The fish and lamb there is out of this world. Both things that tend to be done terribly in the UK.

But with the exception of poffertjes and pancakes I'm with you with Dutch food (and my Dutch friend doesn't disagree!). Having said that the Dutch influence on Indonesia and vice versa is brilliant. You can get an amazing Indonesian which you can't in the UK in Indonesia.

I'm of the opinion that everywhere has amazing gems - you have to know what and where to go for it. The UK definitely isn't an exception. One of our strengths is our willingness and adoption of change and this manifests in fusion - the British are the best at fusion food. It's like culture - we steal so much and then claim it as ours! See the British curry - absolutely not Indian or Pakistani but definitely a part of British culture.

I have an American friend and my above mentioned Dutch friend who always want a British curry as they can't get anything similar in their own countries. And we are distinctly different to curries in India and Pakistan too because it's been developed for a British palate. The same goes for a Chinese. A British Chinese is mainly Hong Kong inspired but try and get anything similar in Hong Kong or China and you'll be hard pushed.

And as others have said - the humble potato certainly isn't a British thing. But we've made it our own. Fish and chips isn't British in origin. Nor are crisps. But there are definitely British crisps.

Same as British chocolate. Americans import it - because American chocolate is a special kind of hell.

And yes cheese.

Go live in Australia for a year and come back to me and talk to me about cheese. They don't cheese in the same way in part because cheese in a hot climate isn't a great mix. British cheese is incredible. We take it for granted.

And that's ultimately the crack. We take for granted what we can get and like a bad workman blame our own lack of skills for our 'poor cuisine'. It's bollocks we do world leading food in this country - that follows British traditions (that are ever changing).

Henry VIII would have a banquet with so many things we wouldn't recognise or would be disgusted by it wouldn't be able to source due to extinction. And this reflects the tradition of our country - to adapt to influences and changes in way that few other nations have because of our status as a naval island that's been outward looking and imported and that people have flicked to because it offered opportunities unavailable elsewhere.

Again. We take all this for granted. But it is our tradition. That has filtered to all levels of British society - fish and chips and a roast with potatoes are as working class as they are middle class....

tilypu · 02/04/2025 12:57

TimetoPour · 01/04/2025 21:01

Traditional English food is foul. Meat and vegetables served in a gravy slop. Always served with potatoes and gravy unless it is fish (which is also served with potatoes, peas and some times, a side of gravy). On posh occasions, it’s exactly the same shite wrapped in pastry!
Roast
Cottage Pie
Shepherds Pie
Stew
Casserole
Sausages
Fish and chips
Wellington
Encroute

Why the F do we still eat like Henry VIII?!
I’m sure I must have been Mediterranean in a different life. Nothing worse than all this stodgy rubbish.

Edited

If you eat like that, that's on you. There's nothing to stop you enjoying a whole world of cuisines.

BunnyLake · 02/04/2025 12:57

I think we have some nice comfort food for a cold day but generally speaking it’s not that great as it can be a lot of beige stodge (trying to eat something British on the go proves that, it’s all stodgy pastry and beige).

Although we are not Asian most of our food at home (and eating out) is Asian.

HelloPossible · 02/04/2025 12:54

IHateWasps · 02/04/2025 12:44

I know nothing about the author so I’m not commenting on her, but you said Italian-American recipe which I took to mean Italian-American food which is decidedly not the same thing as Italian. And which just like British-Italian food, has also been altered to American tastes and availability of ingredients, as shown by the article I linked to which demonstrates some of the differences. And again there’s nothing wrong with that. If you mean Italian recipes by an American of Italian heritage then my comments do not apply.

No I was talking about Italian food not American Italian food. I just think what we call Italian food isn’t really what I have experienced in Italy. So am always on the look out for recipes.

AubernFable · 02/04/2025 12:53

Beige, mushy, boiled food- no thanks.

RampantIvy · 02/04/2025 12:48

Truly “authentic” is the food of the poor, using every bit of the animal and padding it out with whatever is available to make it go as far as possible. There are no “authentic” recipes because every area - every family - has their own accepted Correct Version of a dish.

The food we ate at my Chinese friend's house was definitely authentic. She cooked tripe and wouldn't tell us what we were eating until after we had tasted it. I discovered that I don't like tripe.

Also, Brits use a lot more sauce on pasta than Italians do, and the Chinese eat a lot more rice and less of whatever they have cooked in the wok than we do if we ate at a chinese restaurant or had in a takeaway. So saying that only British food is stodgy is incorrect.

IHateWasps · 02/04/2025 12:45

And thank you for introducing me to an author who is new to me. I’ll have to check her recipes out.

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