Fed up of reading threads asking how they can get out of paying care home fees.

Where i am the local authorities closed their homes decades ago. Partly because they couldn't afford to up grade them to single rooms.
All homes are private.

Agree
I often think it’s a way of saying the poor get tat. So lucky you if you’re a self funder 🤣🤣🤣. It’s just not true

My self funding relative had no choice
She took what was available
There was only two places available locally and one was for nursing care only.

She was one of three self funding. Out of 15 in the home.

My dad was the same with only one free place when he needed it in Watford. Luckily at a new build home. It took all people regardless of how they were financed. He had no choice as he was in hospital waiting to be moved. ( he didn’t need it in the end but we went through the process of finding a place as quickly as possible )

The majority of homes are much the same and I’ve looked in different areas for three people in all.

There are hardly any local authority owned homes now.

This. I’ve worked in the care home sector and although I don’t think any care home provides the kind of care it should, the “private” homes are much nicer than the local authority ones - en-suite, nice communal areas, better meals, gardens, mini-buses and activities co-ordinators to take people out for the day etc.

I’ve been in local authority homes that are so depressingly grim. As if going into care wasn’t bad enough - you’d definitely want to chose where you lived.

But at the point of needing to go in a home, will you really care much about the home you'll be living in? Or maybe the better question is, will you even have the capacity to care?

I haven't read all your posts, but you, and many people on this thread, infer that care homes in the UK are either shit (and that's where the state-funded people live) or are the bells and whistles homes (where the self-funders live). If you really do think this, you're deluded.

@coldandfrostymorning23
Its actually three times more in England. Based on published averages

See previous post. It amounts to £44,000 more than a tax payer funded place.

Its an absolute disgrace isn’t it @CalmFox . 💐 sorry for your loss 💐

@LBFseBrom

I agree, dementia is something that generally cannot be accommodated at home. Many patients need 24 hour care and supervision, they can be impulsive, sometimes aggressive and a danger to themselves and others. It's terribly, terribly sad but specialised residential care is necessary for them.*

Yes, I agree too. We tried to keep MIL in her own home, caring for her between ourselves, which worked at first but as her condition got worse, she was dangerous. She'd always been independent and always walked to the shops virtually every day, to the library, etc. Trouble was, she started forgetting where she lived, not just the street, but the town, so instead of leaving her drive and walking to the right to the newsagents, she'd walk to the left (as she used to do a few decades ago) and would get lost. Then she'd not known how to get back home - she could even walk straight past her house and not recognise it because she'd forgotten she'd moved and would be looking for a 3 storey terraced house instead of the bungalow she'd lived in for 20 years. The next day, she'd turn right, get her paper, and go straight home, no problem at all. It was so haphazard.

We turned up one morning to find her electric alarm clock on the lounge floor with the flex cut. She'd no knowledge of cutting it. But the bedroom circuit breaker had blown and there was a pair of scissors on the bedside table. She'd clearly got annoyed by it and instead of turning it off or unplugging it, she'd gone for the scissors to cut the cable, thus tripping the electrics.

Another time, she'd clearly had a blown bulb in her lounge and decided to change the bulb, something she'd done hundreds of times in her life. We turned up and the light fitting was hanging from the ceiling, broken light shade, broken bulb with glass all over the floor. Again, she'd no idea what she'd done.

She just wasn't safe to leave on her own for any time at all, so we had to organise 24 hour care for her at home, but she'd not let them in, would start getting aggressive when they turned up as she'd forget who they were from the day before, basically chase them out of the house with a stick!

So we fully understand why residential care homes are the only viable answer for those with advanced dementia.

And why not

Although hardly sponging if they’ve payed so much into it. Just getting something out from something they’ve already paid into

Good for you @Ablondiebutagoody

Sevenoaks has the highest number of self funders at 78%
Generally the SEast has the most and the North the least

Here's some figures including
A graph comparing funding by age ( as a pp mentioned this )

@Panterusblackish totally agree, care homes should not be commercial enterprises.

Then then many parts of the NHS are private and always have been like GP practices and Dentist practices.
At one point loads of them were owned by footballers or retired footballers.

Or maybe it should be a choice, NHS type care homes or if you want better go private.

@twiddlingthumbs69 I'll agree with you too. It's ridiculous that people get better money stacking shelfs than caring for elderly and vulnerable people.
And that's kind of rolled into care being the priority rather than profit.

Isn't that you sponging off the tax payer?

This ^^
My dad went into a care home 4 years ago, dementia. I had to sell his house and £180k went on fees until his funds reached the upper care limit of £23,250. The local authority then paid most of the fees and this was topped up with his pensions. The total then paid was no where near the figure he was paying when he was self-funding, this is the part that makes me angry. I sensibly bought a pre-paid funeral from his funds when they got close to UCL. He died 2 weeks ago, leaving £22,000.

There needs to be a total overhaul of the service starting with paying Carers what they are worth! We are probably all going to need some form of care in our old age, it’s to our benefit to push for reform now. Would you rather be cared for by someone who feels undervalued, overworked and looked down on in society (thereby causing resentment) or someone who is paid fairly for their work and feels appreciated. No matter what star rating etc the care home has, these are the ppl who are actually doing the hardwork for minimum pay. I’m not a Carer but have had family members in care homes and the stress, frustration and sheer hard work of the actual carers is to be commended. Pay them what they’re worth and we’ll all be happy in the long run

If you aren’t willing/capable to care for elderly relatives then don’t expect an inheritance. Equally if you don’t have family to care for you in your old age then expect to pay for care.

I just wish the money that was paid for care actually went to the carers! And not wealthy CEO’s running unscrupulous care homes paying carers minimum wage.

You tagged a poster bringing up the cradle to grave issue
So that’s zero to death

I do agree though. If it’s free for some it should be free for all. Why should just tax payers be required to pay again for something they’ve already paid for !

Everyone can do that though including the kids of tax payer funded people.

True.
Although a tiny majority ( less than 5% ) of non pensioners pay for their social care.

Here’s some figures from the Kings fund analysts for 22/23

They can care for you. As you cared for them the first 18 years of their life.

It’s because those of us who are seeing it possibly coming down the line quite fast don’t want to be in the kind of crap care home the state deems appropriate. Personally I’d rather pay and be in the place of my choice. Which will also be the kind of place so popular with self funders it will have a waiting list and won’t accept those who are state funded. There are a lot of those round here.

Yep. If care homes were run on a not for profit basis then fair enough.

However I know someone who runs multiple. She's dripping in diamonds, can't wait to show you her latest ones. Owns multiple properties that stand empty.

Her staff are all on minimum wage. The homes are a license to print money.

During covid she was upset because so many of her residents were dying it was costing her money.

She basically makes her living extracting the life savings of the old, vulnerable and infirm.

Of course people don't want their parent"s hard earned cash to disappear into the pockets of people like this.

Exactly!

It’s simple equality !

Because the conversation is about care homes, which is in the main end of life care. People forget dementia, parkinsons, MS etc are all terminal illnesses.

Personally I don't believe it should be means tested. People should get care of the need it.

That’s a contribution of £44,000 a year whilst in a care home !

( ie. How much more you’ll pay as a self funder…..🤯. No wonder these threads are so popular …..
Or is that because most people aren’t in fact self funders so are quite happy to keep others paying that £44,000 )
🤔

All social care is currently means tested.

Only healthcare is free at the point of access and even then things like prescriptions, dentistry, glasses etc are means tested.

If you need social care you are financially assessed for your ability to pay for it, whether if that's because you have dementia in your 80s, schizophrenia in your 30s, or if you have a learning disability, you were born with, or an acquired brain injury from a heart attack in your 50s, a stroke in your 60s, or multiple sclerosis that started in your 20s, or metastatic cancer in your 40s.

If your care needs are complex, unpredictable and severe they might be considered to be primarily a health need and the NHS will pay the full cost of care.

Why just end of life !

Cradle to grave means all life’s years. ( What’s it with people only ever glaring at pensioners. ).