Fed up of reading threads asking how they can get out of paying care home fees.

So how do you envisage being looked after when the time comes?

Me too but I think if dementia strikes there is very little alternative.

My friend said once she reached 80, she'd end her life to avoid fees/becoming 'old'.

She sold her house, spent loads on holidays, clothes, just living a great life! She's 79 now and freaking out because she doesn't feel remotely ready to finish her life yet.

I don't agree. I think with housing costs the way they are, it's the only way many people will ever own a house.

You may think very differently if you knew you'd end up homeless if care fees had to be paid.

Well the only way you can do this is by dropping down dead and not needing it or getting your kids to care for you.

They often won't let you die at home in your own waste if you have dementia. You'll be put in a care home and pumped full of antibiotics while you slowly turn into a vegetable at the cost of thousands of pounds a day.

I don't know what the society wide solution is, but I hope I'm able to throw myself off a cliff good and early, and if there's any inheritance to be had, DS can have it.

My mum (in her 70's) realised that paying £50 for a personal trainer every week would probably save money in carers further down the line. She's always been fairly fit, although she's had a heart attack and minor cancer, but she's not giving up yet. Hyrox has been mentioned 😂.
I'm doing the same, keeping as fit and well as I can should save a few quid as I get older.

If someone requires round-the-clock care that's 168 hours a week. So, even single-handed you need probably 5 carers (and that doesn't allow much for time off, sickness etc). At the NMW rate it's over £100,000 a year.

I think another issue is people being kept at home to secure the inheritance. There's a lady I know, she has dementia. She lives with her disabled husband. She's been outside in her nightie, screaming her head off late at night. She's had falls and been taken to hospital. So sad to see. Her daughter lives nearby and does go and see them every day. But she really needs round the clock care. But the parents house is worth 1mill+ and I suspect that the family are trying to hang on to that. It worries me how far they'll let it go. I'm aware I don't have the full picture but that woman is suffering. I can see that.

Yes, this is the unfairness at the heart of the problem, I agree.

Sure, but not everyone with cancer get CHC payments. It tends to be paid out right at the end when extra nursing care, possibly at home, is needed.

A few years ago, the Tories chose to change the way councils are funded, and basically removed their central government funding. Apparently, they cynically calculated that local councillors would be blamed for the resulting chaos. Since then, care costs have risen enormously - a double whammy.

Our local council is insolvent and it’s long-term finances are unsustainable. It’s had government permission to increase council tax by 7.49%, but that will only reduce the budget shortfall by a small amount. The council is also selling off assets, which is just buying time. Many other local authorities around the country are in the same boat - they cannot provide their statutory services on the budget they have.

We need the government to come up with a sustainable solution for funding social care, which will inevitably involve central government funding. And hopefully, it will end some of the injustices in the current system, such as self-payers being charged extra in order to subsidise other residents.

Personally, I would also like to see some of our local care providers named and shamed in the media, especially the ones which hiked up their prices by 100% in a single year. They’ve got off scot-free.

TL:DR - the current model for funding social care is unsustainable and the government needs to change it ASAP.

I was lucky enough to benefit from grammar school and a full university grant, so I have “bettered myself” if you like. You’d think I’d have no problem with paying for care, right? Except I have a disabled child, and I’m terrified of what state-provided “care” will look like for him if we can’t pass on the assets we’ve been accumulating for his future. We could afford for one of us to retire now, but we can’t because the fear never leaves you. So we’re already planning everything possible to avoid paying IH tax/fees in future. Luckily my DH is not from the UK so we own property and have accounts in several countries, which helps. And yes, I’m happy to live in the care home that smells of cabbage and piss, as long as DS is okay.

Why can’t the family women care for their elderly relatives?

Fixed that for you.

I will end my own life rather than have the kids' inheritance go on care home fees. - you won't - you say that now, but when it comes to the crunch you won't. Infeed the likelihood is that you will not be capable of doing so. I have seen this scenario so many times.

I think part of the problem comes from several generations being under the impression that this is what they have paid their national insurance for. Indeed it was sold like that with Beveridge and Bevan’s ‘cradle to grave’. At the time, no one had any idea how this would look in the 2020s.

The writing has been on the wall for some time and all politicians are aware of it but too scared to address it. It’s cowardly, because a cross-party agreement would not lose any party any votes but would start coming up with a solution.

IMHO the only solution is either a significant raise in NI or a compulsory insurance scheme (a bit like car insurance) which could be means tested so that those on benefits or low incomes have their contribution paid for by the state.

I used to be of the view that all inherited wealth was bad, so home owners should accept they have to pay for care, as indeed I do as a home owner myself since my insurance idea isn’t a real option at this time. However, effectively this diverts wealth from those who have managed to make social mobility work for them back to the super rich. Over time we’d see inherited wealth concentrated in the hands of even fewer people than we do now.

I got it for my OH - on appeal after 2 rejections.

How did I succeed? ... I am intelligent and highly educated, I had worked in the field, I was determined not to let them get away with a wrong refusal, I would not let them financially assess him until his right to CHCF had been established or not, I was incensed by those advising me who knew less than I did and gave erroneous information (aka lied), I doggedly pursued the claim going through every tiny nuance so they could not wriggle out of it, I somehow found the energy and determination to do this in spite of also being in the process of watching my OH dying.

How many others have these advantages? - they just believe what they are told. Even when those statements are untrue.

The system stinks - it needs total overhaul. But which government is going to grasp the nettle and seriously get to grips with the need to deal with the interface/competition between health and social services, and to work out a fair financial system for all?

To be fair some people's care needs get so high that the individual can no longer care for them at home. This happened to my Mum after a UTI led to a rapid deterioration physically and cognitively.

I will end my own life rather than have the kids' inheritance go on care home fees. Having spent time in a lot of care homes professionally and personally (for my Mum), there is no way I want to end my life in one of those places. I'd hate it. Why spend a fortune to spend my end years in somewhere I hate?

Indeed.
My exH and his sister are outraged that they either have to pay for their mother's care, or sell her house ('but, my inheritance!'). The alternative is to care for her themselves, between them (1 retired 1 doesn't need to work for £). Their choice.
For those who have no-one to care for them and no assets, then the state pays.

My former in laws have care at home, there are two carers to cover daytimes seven days a week, it’s about £50k a year and doesn’t cover nights. They don’t need proper nursing care though and the one with dementia is still doing pretty well. Once they get worse night carers will be needed too, at which point a care home will be cheaper alas.

My parents are both in nursing homes and have been self funding for two years. They started off with care at home but due to high medical needs it did not work out.
As they live a long way from me and I am still working with a sick 20 year old daughter who needs extra support there is no way I could I help look after them.
They are both very well looked after and unlikely to be moved when they run out of money.

Everywhere in life some people have more money and resources than others. This gives them more choice in the services and products they buy. If I want a great choice of care facilities in my later years I expect to have to pay for it. Wealth accrued during your life is largely down to luck anyway - social status, health, intelligence etc

In my experience, the remaining local authority-run homes are, on average, better than the equivalent privately run homes and they avoid featuring in the the truly dire private sector homes that surprisingly manage to avoid the expected regulator scrutiny and remain open. No bells and whistles and cosmetically not the best buildings but adequate client-focused care and no terrible poor nursing practice hand offs to primary care or the other extreme of doing less than the expected minimum, taking no responsibility and expecting live in presence from the practice.

Unfortunately, in my professional locality, the remaining LA homes are now being sold off or closed, having managed to survive LA budget cutting until now.

Surely you know there's millions of working people with who are renting and have nothing left over for savings. In fact, a good chunk of these people will be the very people caring for those in nursing homes. 🙄