Fed up of reading threads asking how they can get out of paying care home fees.

The fact that we increasingly live in a world in which the most significant factor which determines how well off you are or will be is how much you inherit, not how hard you work or how clever you are, shouldn't be overlooked here. For a lot of people, an inheritance is the only way that they will ever have the security of a home. That will also apply to their children. I'm not surprised that people are checking when the stakes are so high.

Worth noting that the state does pay for medical care but not for social care. DF went into a home for end of life care and there was no cost to us or my DM.

Late to the party but, yes, how? Obviously if they drop down dead that’s fine (as you just get everything) but if they need care…how will you hide the cash and assets for the local authority? I keep being informed it’s harder than ever to hide any cash these days.

Because people in care homes now are often not just “elderly”. Life expectancy has increased and therefore the number of people living long enough to develop dementia has increased with it. Someone with advanced dementia needs nursing care

Tbh their main costs are staff. You might not like it but it’s not a profitable industry

That could be seen as deprivation of assets.

I think what I might plan to do is to downsize and give some of the proceeds from the sale of the house to a young relative as a deposit on their own place and then use the rest to into a retirement home. Does that sound feasible? We do have to plan for this don't we?

I think there’s a misunderstanding that this is a provision for all that some pay for. That’s NOT what it is. It’s a safety net for those who couldn’t or didn’t make adequate provision. We pay for those who CANNOT pay for themselves and your inheritances comes AFTER the elderly persons needs.

Heating can’t be cheap.

I don’t think it’s feasible for them to be funded in their entirety by the state. But equally I can see it seems unfair to work hard to get a house/money and then it all gets used up in fees, whereas people who may have made different choices get it free. and to add insult to injury private payers are probably subsidising their care.

Not sure what the answer is, some kind of compulsory insurance maybe? I’d happily pay for that tbh I may look into it

I'm no lover of care home managers, but staff costs are actually massive even if they are paid near minimum wage. But in reality many aren't as care homes are forced to rely agency staff as they can't get their own staff and those are much more expensive. And you need carer cover 24/7 as well as kitchen staff cleaners, maintenance. Heating and maintenance is also a huge bill. Round our way quite a few homes have gone bust, and it's not from want of potential clients. They're only really lucrative if they are very large and you get economies of scale, and that can also have it's issues with getting enough staff and potential building costs.

HMRC considers that very little tax is uncollected from high earners and large businesses. Most unpaid tax is from smaller firms and lower earners

I thought that! You'd get a few devoted sons and husbands doing their share, but they'd be the exception. Society has moved on. Not only are far more women in the workforce, but retirement ages have gone up, people become parents far later than they used to so many middle-aged people still have dependent children to look after, and far more of us now live at a great distance from our parents.

My parents chose to move when they retired to a place which has been lovely to visit, but there wasn't a cat in hell's chance that either my brother or I would move there to be near them. They could have moved somewhere much closer to one of us, but didn't. Now my 92yo mother is widowed and in very poor health, it's a great worry to be so far from her. There are good reasons why she won't/can't move now.

not if you still live in it - it's not a "gift" for IHT purposes if you continue to gain any benefit from it. (it's called a Gift With Reservation of Benefit) You could, in fact, end up paying MORE tax by doing this.
www.lubbockfine.co.uk/blog/understanding-gifts-with-reservation-of-benefit-gwrob/#:~:text=Examples%20of%20this%20include%20a,a%20GWROB%20by%20the%20donor.

Neither my sister nor I would have been willing to care for our mother due to how she treated us growing up.

Everyone is not “conveniently “ forgetting anything. First of all: people who end up needing public assistance are not necessarily people who didn’t work hard all their lives and are, therefore, “undeserving” in your mind. In the current capitalist system a person might have worked hard at a minimum wage job or had disabled children and never achieved an asset class that enables them to pay for late life care.

Second of all inherited wealth such as houses or land are not necessarily the product of hard work or thrift. Much of it may have been subsidized (eg mortgage deductions) or been the result of luck.

At any rate the decision by the state to attempt to prevent absolute immiseration and homelessness in an elderly indigent and disabled population isn’t theft from the provident part if the population. Its a decision of all the voting population to take care of the less fortunate. Others who don’t fall into the indigent/disabled class just don’t need that help.

The whole system needs radical reform.

I wait with baited breath for a government who is prepared to take on that mammoth political hot potato!

My maternal grandparents died at home in their late 70s. Their children cared for them, no issues. My paternal grandmother lived to 102, my mother was the only surviving close relative and she was 80 at the time. Caring for her broke my mother, physically and mentally. It would have been much better for grandma to go into a home.

My mother is 83 now and doesn't require care yet, but if she will in the next few years, I won't be able to provide it myself. I work ft (20 years to go still) and I've got children to take care of.

What exactly do they spend it on?
It's not staff wages or food that's for sure.

Care homes don’t make as much profit as you’d expect.

Totally agree with you @Nextdoortomeis

I recently moved house for a job. I quite liked the house I owned in the town I've left, and it's got lots of important and significant memories for me.

So I think the government (ie taxpayers) should pay for me to buy a house where I've moved to, because of - oh all the memories of the family home. And to save it for my children's inheritance.

It's ridiculous isn't it?

It's just the same when going into a retirement or care home: you can't live in your old home, so sell it to pay for the place you need to live in.

Given that most care homes charge £1k a week for shit care from minimum wage staff whilst care home owners rake it in at a massive profit YABU.

My Uncle worked all his life for his home and it went paying for horrendous care and shit food and for people who had never worked a day in their life to live in the same place. He paid for them all the way through his life and in their old age as well as himself and the care home owners profited massively while he was abused by care home staff who stole from him. It was £1200 a week for this.

What you're arguing for is care home owners to profit because literally nobody else does well from the arrangement (unless you sit on your arse all your life or you own a care home).
If you got decent food and decent care that would be one thing but as recent headlines have shown, you don't.

But should they also have to pay for others that don’t?

everyone is conveniently ignoring this fact

And people wonder they struggle to find care workers. Its not considered to be a job of value and if they know they are going to be resented for being poorer later on why the fuck WOULD ppl choose to do this for a job. I wouldnt.
40,000 of them quit due to not wanting the Covid vaccine. More will think fuck it Im not doing a thankless job for shit pay to be looked down on later on when i need care

Agree @rwalker

just like the pp who noted her mum saving and paying for care whilst her MIL spent it all and didn’t bother saving so got it all for free!
That would really p… me off.

That’s the UK way. Another completely unfair system.

There are ways around it though. So always worthwhile having a Mumsnet thread to share advice 😃