Fed up of reading threads asking how they can get out of paying care home fees.

You don’t pay both IHT and capital gains tax

Its one of those areas Rachel was salivating over.
However, nothings changed.

Yes I fully agree, I did cover that in the rest of my post too.

A lot of care and treatments now comes with heavy restrictions.

The waiting list for mental health support or ND assessments is now so long that if you can't go private, you may as well forget getting treatment. The same goes for many types of surgery. Fertility treatment comes with so many rules around eligibility that many people end up flying abroad to pay a lower cost for it.

It's not just elderly care.

Do you know the process?

I honestly don't think I'd want my DSs wiping my ass or changing my incontinence pants.

I wouldn't really want a stranger doing it either, but slightly less.....I can't find the right words....than my kids.

So true and I know from experience this is true. Try hoisting an elderly dementia patient on your own into bed and on the loo etc, it’s exhausting and heartbreaking

My mum is in one of these ‘crappy’ care homes paid for by the state and it’s actually really nice! Great staff too

The same reason why those of us who are currently working taxpayers pay for state funded care home residents, and schools, and the NHS.

We pay into the system when we can so that we can take out when we need. That’s the whole point.

The state meets the needs of people who didn’t pay in so it can meets the needs of those who did.

If I need a care home I don’t plan on the state paying for it just so that my children can inherit. I plan on the state paying for it because I’ve done my bit by paying tax, working in paid and voluntary jobs that are needed in society and by being self sufficient. Why shouldn’t I be provided with care if I need it just like everyone else?

Why are we allowing people to suffer terminal illness in a way we wouldn't allow animals to suffer?

Only opponents of the assisted dying bill would be able to answer that.

I can't say much about other illnesses like Parkinsons or MS but I can honestly say I wouldn't want to have the latter stages of dementia.

If it was an animal cat, dog, or even a cow who was doubly incontinent, no clue if its New Year or New York the owner would be up in court for neglect.

Why are we allowing people to suffer terminal illness in a way we wouldn't allow animals to suffer?

What other care, or treatments would you like to see means tested?

Honestly I believe it should be funded if necessary. Exactly the same as other illnesses.

WhoMeMissYesYouMiss · Today 16:02
We cant afford cradle to the grave. The benefits system needs to move with the times.
.......

I think it can afforded for those who need it. Many elderly can be self-funding, they are likely to use the NHS but that's for all ages. I'm happy to contribute to the welfare of those who are in need, that's what the welfare state is all about.

Well if we can't afford it may be all end of life care should be means tested.
Not just care homes.

One of the previous governments were looking at the viability of creating a market for a one off insurance policy. Was it likely to be c£20k? and proved to be sufficiently expensive that people were unlikely to be willing to pay for it given the likelihood of needing to pay care home fees Most people appeared to want to keep their money and take their chances until they finf they need to pay fees.

Seemed odd to me as a large loss low probability event is traditionally what insurance is for.

There is a current market for immediate or deferred care home fee annuities which involve a significant payment with a guaranteed payment amount like any other annuity. There is no guarantee the payments will cover all the fees, the costs are specific to medical history but don't come cheap - approximately £100k up front for say £20k a year which won't cover much or all of the fees.

We cant afford cradle to the grave. The benefits system needs to move with the times.

We pay for children care for children who are too young to look after themselves why would you not expect to pay for care for the elderly who are too frail to look after themselves?

Savings you pass on to your children after you die is inheritance. It should be view as exactly that.

The corporate rate is not available to private individuals. If your care is funded by the council you pay nothing not three times what a private individual pays.
Not all care home residents are pensioners so whether or not you receive a UK state pension is irrelevant & in any case not all pensioners are equal by any means.

This is just an explanation of the current situation not a justification. My preferred option is a National Care Service integrated into the NHS so no individual pays for care home fees. We need to pool the risk so that the minority of people who do need residential care get the cost paid by all of us.

IME it used to be that rent would be cheaper than the equivalent mortgage with the difference equating to the capital gain but now rent seems to be more expensive - many posters seem to forget about the living in the home and the averted rent.

"it's really sad to think of your life's work being sold to a stranger to pay for what often isn't even great care anyway" but also after a lifetime of the benefit of living in the home too. are many buying houses to pay for care fees without living in them first or renting them out for a return.

Agreed about the CGT after the new owners losing the relevant primary residence allowance. Are you certain about no IHT - if no arm's length rent is paid and HMRC consider it a gift with reservation? then any IHT 'planning' may be defeated and, if over the relevant thresholds and spousal transfers, wouldn't IHT be potentially in play as well?

FWIW, when acquaintances who do not have significant wealth (enough to make trusts and FIC's viable in their own right and care home fees to be relatively trivial) have said they've 'taken action' in some cases what they've signed up to looks much worse than doing nothing. Two of which had a fourth party advisor taking an ownership stake in some circumstances. Advice from a decent solicitor was quickly sought by one.

One of my solicitor acquaintances see care home fees protection and IHT aversion as a mess with mis-selling on the horizon.

@Needspaceforlego I’m just saying that I think those figures will change, for whatever reason, possibly expressed clumsily by me. I know no-one wants to use care homes.
DH was diagnosed with Parkinson’s 10 years before any SS involvement but it wouldn’t have been an unreasonable assumption that at some point he might need to access care and, if it were to be state funded, then deprivation of assets could presumably go back as far as diagnosis.

Incorrect.

Councils don’t pay enough to fund the running of the home. They rely on self funders to top up the fees.
Homes rely on the extra £44,000 plus without it they would all be shutting down.

Further more.
If one considers the bulk buy corporate funding theory then as every pensioner on a UK pension is equal councils should be factoring in all of them for funding.
Not picking and choosing who gets the right to the bulk buy benefits .
That like saying one manager gets to pay one third of a hotel cost whilst the other manager has to pay three times the value.

Imagine going to a restaurant or doing your weekly food shop and being charged 3 times more than the person sat at the table or in the queue next to you.

This is a false analogy. A better comparison would be between renting a car or booking a hotel & paying the full retail price versus someone travelling on company business paying a fraction of the retail price because a corporate discount has been negotiated. Local councils get the care home corporate discount but individuals don't

It must be really awful to have worked hard, built a lovely home you want to pass on to your children & then through no fault of your own have to sell it to pay for your care. It must be. However, I think it has probably served you well having a lovely, secure home to spend your life in & raise a family in. Fewer and fewer people will have that now, I certainly can't imagine being able to own my home any time soon, so I am paying rent to a private landlord (who is lovely!) but actually the home I live in would be sold & I would be homeless & I know lots of people who are in the same situation. So having assets to sell may well be less of an issue for people in the future but I'm not sure it's of benefit to the care sector. Most of those having to sell homes now will have hugely benefitted from better affordability - one parent staying at home etc. A far cry from today's lifestyle for most families. It must be devastating & I understand why people don't want to do it though, it's really sad to think of your life's work being sold to a stranger to pay for what often isn't even great care anyway.

*edited to fix spelling error