Little boy wanting to be a girl

@frenchnoodle

"Give it a rest, you've been replying repeatedly to posts without even reading them through the whole thread, for at least three days now."

I've posted 5 times on a long thread over the course of a day.

You could just ignore my posts. Why don't you? Why do you feel compelled to tell me I shouldn't post? What gives you the right to advise me how or whether to comment on a thread?

Give it a rest, you've been replying repeatedly to posts without even reading them through the whole thread, for at least three days now.

Including one about my son, you didn't read any part of it asked me "For all children? For most children?" Because all you scanned was "it's a phase."

If you'd have taken the time to read you would have known which child.

The last thing needed on a thread like this is someone trying to start arguments.

No child is born in the wrong body. This is a thread about a 5 year old boy where the OP has received lots of informed, sensitive, age appropriate advice about responding supportively to him and ensuring he's safeguarded should there be any adult transactivists in his school breaching safeguarding and other guidelines designed to keep children safe.

Suggesting that this shows an obsessive preoccupation with transwomen suggests you may not have read the actual thread.

OP, you've had such great advice here. Just a few things to add:

• It would be worth ordering a copy of My Body Is Me. I often recommend this, but am in no way linked to the author and illustrator - I just think it's a great book, and sounds like exactly what you need. It's got lots of positive messages about individuality, it'll be perfect. If you're feeling brave, one copy for you and one for school? "Oops, I bought two, would you like it?". I think there's great power in being able to refer back to a text from a decent picture book; they hold great truths simply put.

• Personally, I feel like there's a heck of a lot of luck involved in whether your child gets swayed by gender ideology. My three children sit at the full range of kool-aid, and my husband and I have always done pretty well by stereotypes; yes he's earned all the money, but I've done all the DIY, don't know one end of a make-up brush from the other (well, I assume you use the fluffy end because the pokey end would look like you had chicken pox), and have a sporting hobby that is hugely male-dominated. I reckon this craze will have passed by the time your children are old enough to really worry about it - so try not to let it get to you. Nothing a teen likes more than rebelling against parents' special interest...

• and an odd thing: my son with ASD and ADHD really really doesn't like birthdays. Mainly others, but his too. I've only recently realised this, and he's nearly 20! I mention this because we've had to take some fairly sudden and drastic action to avoid him being at my younger kids' birthday parties over the years. So if your son is anything like mine was at the same age, then this phase is absolutely linked to your daughter's recent birthday and probably not related to anything else at all.

All best wishes OP!

It’s interesting that you mention the impact of parental impact on the decision of adults to take hormones and surgery to alter their appearance to that of the opposite sex.

It has been reported/observed many times - (including with some quite high profile trans people) that homophobic parents and their behaviour are far more likely to end up with children who identify as the opposite sex. It has been cited as a major concern by the clinicians at the Tavistock - they called it ‘transing away the gay’.

It is concerning that you refer to parents seeking to safeguard their child as having an ‘idealogical fixation’ but thankfully more people are waking up to the harms caused and don’t share your view.

If I had a gender non-conforming child I would reassure them in the strongest possible terms that there is no 'right' way to be a male or female, encourage them to express themselves as they feel fit and emphasise that their body is perfect just the way it is. Is that 'contempt' in your eyes?

That's an entirely separate question which would depend on lots of factors. What's the relevance to this point?

I suspect there are very very few children who have entrenched gender dysphoria, who transition in adolescence or adulthood. But there's not none. And for those who exist - it's really hard to imagine what their relationships with their parents would be like if their parents were like the many people on mumsnet who have an ideological fixation on this issue. The obsessive preoccupation with transgender women - the constant displays of absolute contempt for them. I find it shocking.

@TheKeatingFive Re: 'you think gender is more important than sex'. If a woman chooses to use her husband's surname after marriage and I also use it when I'm referring to her, is it an indication of my support for the patriarchy?

My son was jealous of our dog. He decided he wanted to be a dog. He was 4. It didn't last long.
He now likes being a boy and is obsessed with the colour green. Hes nearly 6.
It might just be a phase for you LO as he has a new sibling Maybe?

If that was true there would be higher than average rates of trans and non binary in the PCOS community. There is certainly a link to PCOS and having a child on the autism spectrum but as far as I know gender identity and PCOS has no higher correlation than in communities of women without PCOS.

We could be waiting a long time

Still waiting for @CosyLemur to provide their source....

I wonder are there girls that he wants to play with that are doing the 'no boys allowed' thing? If so I'd tell the school, i hate that kind of excluding behaviour
Or maybe all the boys only play soccer all day and he knows he can't fit in. Gender stereotyping at that age can be so damaging to kids who aren't typical. If it were me I'd go toy or costume shopping and let him choose whatever. Don't comment on his preferences, if he wants his nails done let him do this but not in the context of trying to be less a boy and more a girl. Just repeatedly tell him that different people like different things and there are no rules. Try not to worry about it, it's not that unusual. I work with young kids and every year there are one or two boys like that.

Nonsense about hormones, what on earth are you talking about

Going back to the fact that Im clearly a man given I dont 'live as a woman', is this also compounded then because I spent many years suffering from PCOS which of course is a hormone imbalance, causing my fine moustache by the way.

Is that what you're talking about? Because thats bollox.

but interestingly when tested their hormones more often aline with the gender they feel they are rather than their assigned at birth gender.

Could you provide your sources for this please?

Yes I am a teacher and while I was doing supply in schools in SW London I saw gender idiology being taught to primary school children. One year 1 teacher was teaching the 5 year olds in her class they/them pronouns in grammas lessons and I've also seen some wild books about being born in the wrong body in schools. It's worse in some schools that others, but if you have an activist teacher somewhere in the school then they really push she agenda ok the kids.

Don't read anything into it, it doesn't mean your son is "trans", kids just say and feel weird things, he'll most likely grow out of it. However, your son could definitely have been exposed to trans propaganda at school via PSHE, in books or by activist teachers. It's rife in some schools, I know personally as I used to be a teacher and saw gender ideology taught to children this young. I would speak to the head and ask to see their PSHE curriculum and ask if there are any books on gender idiology in the school. If all seems ok and your son's teacher doesn't have blue hair or wear a rainbow lanyard then your probably ok and it will just be a weird phase that passes, even in kids who genuinely have cross sex feelings the vast majority grow out of it during puberty. If your concerned about the school putting ideas in his head take him out.

but interestingly when tested their hormones more often aline with the gender they feel they are rather than their assigned at birth gender.

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever

There is no indoctrination of gender online at all even within the ASD community! There are more transgender people in the ASD community, but interestingly when tested their hormones more often aline with the gender they feel they are rather than their assigned at birth gender.
Ask your son why he wants to be a girl; it could be like my son that theres a girl on his class who he'd like to be friends with but they only play with other girls.

But would you love him any less if in 10+ years he's still saying he wants to be a girl?

i have a 5 year old and I’ve never heard the school mention anything about genders or that you can be either/only play with certain things if you are one or the other.
He has friends of both gender and I’ve seen them pretend to be anything from trains to cats.
When I helped out in class with reading there were boys wandering around in dresses from the role play area, girls clanging around in the mud kitchen or digging because they wanted to be farmers, no one batted an eye lid or even mentioned it because it’s all age appropriate play. No one thought that the boys wandering around in dresses wanted to be girls, the one dressed as a cat wanted to be an animal or anything else.
My eldest is ND and schools have always just let him be himself, now he a teenager he goes to the gym and does what is perceived to ‘male activities’ but has both his ears pierced, which people have told him helpfully make him ‘look like a girl’. He gets on better with females than males and enjoys gardening, cooking and sewing. He identifies as male and said to be once he didn’t understand how people can change what gender they are when you are born either male/female because he sees everything black/white.
I wouldn’t mention it to the school and I would worry any more about it, all 5 years dress up and play make believe.

I really wish you were right.

I know it sounds ridiculous. It’s quite horrifying and wrong in so many ways but it is happening in some schools.

I have seen it with my own eyes. Other parents have experienced it with their own children.

Stonewall was very open about targeting children aged 2+ and very clear about the messaging that they might have been born in the ‘wrong body’ and should have the option to ‘identify’ as the opposite sex. The now discredited charity Mermaids listed the following indicators as signs a child might be ‘trans’ in its training: not having many friends, not doing well at school, grief, wanting to play with ‘opposite sex’ toys, liking opposite sex hairstyles/clothes etc.

The BBC has also promoted this messaging on many resources aimed at schools - most famously their assertion that there are more than 100 genders and that ‘gender’ is more important than sex in the situations where sex is relevant.

Head over to the Sex and Gender board in Feminism if you would like to understand how incorrect your repeated claims are.

I have a 10yo DS with ASD and I get you’re worries although I’d say it’s a bit premature to be concerned.

DS I’d describe as “gender non-conforming”. He went through a phase of saying he actually wanted to be a girl around 6-7 whereas he currently seems satisfied to be a boy who has an affinity with “feminine” things.

We have always been very clear that there are no “boy things” and “girl things” and he can wear what he wants, play with what he wants read what he wants, be friends with who he wants unbound by whether other people thing they are for “boys” or “girls”.

To be honest I think this is an important message for all children. My other DS is a “typical” boy but always stands up for girls and boys being able to do what they want.

Which is just ridiculous. No school is going to push that agenda and say what you said to a child of any age.