To think that not toilet training your child is borderline neglect?

We used washable nappies and think it does make a difference. Also the fact that you have to wash and dry them means you don't want to be doing that any longer than necessary - especially in winter when you can't get them out on the line.

@PithyNavyViewer yeah genius, it's not a "choice" at all, you think it's fun for any parent?? What do you want them to do, slap the kids dry??

Don't feel bad, as I'm sure you know, the night dryness thing is hormonal and it will kick in eventually. It's nothing you did and to my mind just toughing through it whilst avoiding a sense of shame for the child is the best thing you can possibly do. My sympathies though, I know it can feel horrible especially when you have the benefits of "experts" like the ones on this thread.

It's pretty dumb to equate the two because that's probably not what's happening.
For some kids it may be developmental and not working "fast enough."
For others, their parents probably did try but did not persist or use the techniques that would work. We KNOW there are many families in this country with chaotic, difficult lives for many reasons. We know this. Threads like this with their snotty little tongue-in-cheek attitude are just an excuse to pretend we don't know this and take a little pop at those families. And no I don't mean they have to work two jobs, commute, life-is-tough-for-all-of-us, blah blah bootstrap blah. I mean they are depressed, ill, have a mental condition, were parented abusively, the list goes on. I'm talking about parents who love their kids but are not getting it right. Your sense of superiority will do fuck all to help them. Not all parenting is ideal and as this country slides further into poverty that will get worse. Don't pretend you don't know who this thread is shitting on and that you're not enjoying being able to sneer without having to excuse your lack of empathy.

My eldest had a horrible time with impaction and constipation.

The disimpaction routine meant he was constantly leaking so needed pull-ups.

Shock horror over 4! 😱

Generally I can't get worked up about it.

All children she knew maybe. It's really not that easy for some. All kids not managing it does not equal parents are definitely not even trying. You can try your ass off and for some kids there are reasons it takes longer. Enjoy your sense of superiority and your MIL's limitless "wisdom" though.

I can't even begin to imagine a child not using a toilet at age four, unless they have a particular condition, special needs, etc. There's nothing harsh about encouraging a child in that respect, they get to the stage when they know they want to 'go', less nappies are used, and they want to be a big boy or girl.

My MIL has said that when she was a young mother, all children were reliably toilet trained by the time they were 18 months old or so. She was not from the UK and at that time disposable nappies were not available in her country. Very few people had washing machines at home either. It’s understandable in these circumstances that most parents were highly motivated to make sure their children were toilet trained at an early age.

Disposable nappies, pull-ups,etc. have reduced the urgency of toilet training for some parents. I think it is neglectful when parents don’t even bother to help NT children without SN to learn this basic skill.

I do think this country has gotten just a whole lot more cunty recently - as this post perfectly demonstrates.

There’s a ton of sneery, judgy posts looking down on others that they deem “less”.

There’s a whole host of reasons a child might not be toilet-trained by the age of 4, even setting aside potentially undiagnosed SEN.

Jesus, just give other people a bloody break, eh?!

I'm so sick of seeing these comments. My NT DD was toilet trained day and night by 2 1/2 and DD2 just before she turned 2 (she's autistic and couldn't bear feeling wet).
DS is 5 in June and doesn't understand. I think he's worked out what a toilet is for but that's as far as we've got. He's autistic (getting official diagnosis in April) and while I know people say I'm not talking about kids with SEN how about we just don't talk about it? How about we just support each other,?
My absolute dream would be for DS to be toilet trained, it's no fun changing his nappy and being accused of being lazy is just mean.

My kids the minority … the wet feel worked well for them. They did not enjoy feeling cold and wet.

Yeah.

There have always been kids that struggled and took longer due to some kind of special needs, or a physical issue. There have always been a significant number that need night protection a lot longer. None of that is new or startling to people who deal with children a lot. Even when the problem hasn't been identified, there is usually some sense that there is a larger issue at play.

It's the kids that would have been expected to be trained by school age at the latest but somehow seem to be missing getting trained.

I don't think the "wet feel" ones are that much, if any, more effective. They basically feel a little cold, but usually the kids don't seem to care about that much.

It's a lot different than a pair of traditional training pants or a nappy, which really are uncomfortable, and in the case of the training paints will still often involve needing a clean up after an accident.

It's also the effect on the parents - if you can ignore the accident you have undermined the attempt and probably undone the last successful attempt to potty.

@PithyNavyViewer Maybe, but what the fuck has it got to do with you?
HTH

This report mentions the impact of later toilet training.

https://ihv.org.uk/news-and-views/voices/toilet-trouble-supporting-the-1-in-4-children-starting-school-not-toilet-trained/

Oh come on everyone getting offended and saying ‘What about SEN?’! Pretty sure the poster means parents who haven’t even attempted potty training by the time the child is 4 years old, not those who have tried and the child hasn’t succeeded, that’s obviously different.

Is there some sort of epidemic of parents not even bothering to try toilet training? If that’s what the OP is suggesting, I’d love to see a bit of evidence.

That's exactly the point that my friend made during the conversation "The children don't have the discomfort of a wet bottom, so don't have the incentive to learn to use a toilet."

Potty trading “wet feel” pull-ups are commonly available. They feel wet, went wet. Many kind of training pants available. Cloth, re-usable and disposable.

1. is parent actively using strategies to toilet train? But child isn’t having consistent success?
2. Is parent simply using nappies and thinking child will at some point understand, without information and encouragement that they should start wearing underpants and using a toilet.

Potty training success can require parent planning, constant supervision & structuring days to focus on just toilet and motivation.

Some parents do not read or seek advice or instructions about how to teach child various life skills - toilets, shoe laces, cutting food, manners, reading, brushing teeth … not sure if it never occurs to them that behaviors are taught, or they think child figures it when ready or something else.

Yes, I think this is true. And diaper technology (lol) has really improved, so modern diapers can be kept on a long time before they are uncomfortable.

Pull ups haven't done people many real favours either. They can be helpful if used very selectively, especially for night wetting which has always taken longer for some children. But when they are used during training, which is very common, IMO in many cases they screw up the attempts. Kids are used to the feel of peeing in the diaper and don't mind it - they have little internal motive to train when they stay feeling dry and may not really even notice they are wet, and it makes it easy for parents to not pay close attention and miss an "accident".

I understand that some posters are upset that people are being judgemental.

It has always been the case that some children have difficulty with bedwetting or occasional accidents - that's not what my primary colleagues have been talking about. They're seeing more and more children coming into primary where the parents are expecting someone else to do the job of basic parenting - including toilet training - for them.

I've seen this in my own family. My late husband was appalled that his young granddaughter was being allowed just to grab at food instead of using cutlery.

On one memorable occasion, we were out at a restaurant and her parents allowed her to have a Cadbury's Creme Egg at actual the dinner table. She had a coughing fit (thinking about it, she must have been choking) and coughed the damned thing right onto my plate. Her mother smiled benignly.

As part of her contract/relocation package, the mother's firm paid for her daughter to attend a private school. The parents later commented that the school had taught their child to have "beautiful manners". They were less than pleased when DH commented "Is that not your job?"

I think the point was "no intention of starting." Not that she hasn't mastered it at 2.

It's not so much not being successful, as not trying.

There will be some cases where there are issues, whether anyone knows what they are, but the parents are trying and it doesn't work.

Not even trying is neglectful.

I do think there are a number of things that have dovetailed that mean people are struggling more with this. I think over the past 10 or 15 years there has been some bad advice given to parents around training, and also some social changes around work and childcare, plus isolation from COVID, have left some parents without the skills to do it.

In particular some of the child-led attachment stuff, and the idea that it is better to wait until later, and that it will happen naturally when the child is ready, has really screwed some people up.

Too many parents are lazy and spend all day looking at their phones instead of actually parenting. There's no other reason for an increase in children starting school not toilet trained.