To think that not toilet training your child is borderline neglect?

My child was forced into nappies in a two week period. Before that she’d never ever had issues with constipation and holding on to her bowel. After that we had years of problems with constipation and her bowel which also affected her bladder.

Forcing children when they’re not ready is abuse.

Exactly.

Let’s not get into this they may have SEN. This is a post about kids who do not.

Why do you say kids with Sen were not included? People are replying to the OP and they said no such thing. They haven't put any exceptions on it at all.

But this is entirely the point the op is making. It wasnt a priority for you to train him during the day.

Exactly this.

I did ask, what about potty training, and the answer was, nah, we've got loads of time for that. Which I found odd.

Because it’s getting worse and schools don’t have the numbers to deal with it.

There is not enough info in your OP to say... Maybe if they have never tried and the child doesn't have any medical or aln issues which would mean parents know that are not ready, then yes, but I think that's rarely the case.

Mine were both in nappies until 3 and some months, despite trying sooner, so only a matter of months off what you would call neglectful. I'm not sure why it would have been less neglectful to let them have loads of accidents and a lot of stress than leave it a few months and try again? And why is 4 your magic number? Is that based on any medical evidence or child development research?

And are you talking about daytime? Because my daughter was in nappies at night until older than 4, as was my nephew. Every medical piece of advice i could find was that it was 'normal' until 7 and there isn't much you could do to train, there are biological processes involved in waking when you need the toilet, and some children take longer than others. Certainly my son became dry at night naturally straight after being dry in the day with little effort by us to night train him that soon, so that convinced me kids are just different...

And also, many additional learning needs and neuro diversities are not diagnosed until later than 4 in most kids, if ever, so I don't think those saying it depends if they have disabilities can be so clear cut... At that age it's more useful to accept everyone is different than put a black and white label on it in my experience.

I suspect your post had made a lot of people feels shit, and given you haven't been back to clarify context or answer some of the points made, maybe that was your intention, I don't know.

Where is the data for this opinion?

What do we mean by not potty trained exactly?

How many kids start reception in nappies?

How many of those have SEN or other issues/disabilities or are on a waiting list for a diagnosis/intervention?

No, not always. My son was in nappies until he was four and a half. He wasn’t ready and I didn’t force him. He was in nappies at night until he was nearly five.
I hate silly sweeping statements like the OP.

Not trying to toilet train because you want to be a ‘gentle parent’ is neglect.

Having a 4 year old who isn’t toilet trained. Not necessarily neglect.

I’m old mine were out of nappies by 2 for the girls but later to get dry for the boy - my DGCs it seems more of a battle as they can argue. Do it when they are little.

Why start a thread like this, especially with such a rude statement, other than to boost your feeling of superiority at the expense of those you look down on? FGS get a life.

If home and Flexi schooling were easier then a lot of these kids who are not school ready wouldn't be in school.
Unfortunately the bizarre needs for the government to want children of just 4 in school has created some of this issue.

This thread would have really upset me two years ago. I was trying my best with it and had been at it for ages. I felt like a failure. She had been later than expected with rolling, crawling and walking. No additional needs that we know of.

I wonder how much of it was you felt wet in nappies. And terrible nappy rash as a result. Modern nappies are very good for nappy rash… but the other side of that is the child doesnt feel wet.

my dc are teens and were day-time trained by 2. both were in cloth nappies.

Yes my child is one. I honestly think her speech delay is down to lockdown as my other child who has autism was toilet trained by 2 1/2 but my daughter, well, she has been harder to toilet train. I have paid privately for ot (impossible on the nhs in my area) and had no input from my health visitor who merely told me when she is 5 I can apply for nappies through the nhs. Some of us are begging for help from every expert for children to be toilet trained. I’ve even resorted to buying reward boxes, buying all of ms Rachel’s new toilet training items, looping in the teaching assistants at school who work with her.

Most times with the early ones in the 70s it was toilet timing not training in nursery we were all trouped off at regular intervals and pottied even now I don't always go when I "need" to go it's on a schedule

I think too many people on this thread are taking it as a personal criticism of their parenting.
Despite it being clear kids with SEN or nighttime betwetters were not included* *posters with both types of children have jumped in to defend themselves!
As a population (ie millions of us, not just Brenda and her family down the road) we are sending more and more children to school in nappies, the majority of those children could have been toilet trained with a bit of effort.
This affects every child in reception class as teachers are taking time away from teaching to change nappies.
At what point are we allowed to hold people responsible for their actions? We simply cannot excuse every negative behaviour by assuming SEN is behind it, such a change at population level means something has gone wrong with parenting somewhere.

Also, it's just anecdotal that "all children were trained by the age of 18 months" in the 1970s ot 1980s or whatever.

Judging by the sheer amount of public information films made then about things which would today be parenting 101 I'd say there were plenty of neglectful parents back then, having no idea where their kids were all day long.

I tend to think like with obesity, if something affects so many people there is societal change going on due to several factors.

@PithyNavyViewer mine were both dry day and night by second birthday! you just have to stay in for a week and get going with it!

It's not laziness all the time FGS.

I deferred DS as a summer born with a speech delay and still in nappies until the day before his 5th birthday (been trying since he was 2). Under SALT, referred for ASD and ADHD, EHCP in place.

He is now (7, 8 in July) a chatterbox, his teacher told me that my decision has been the best and Year 2 is exactly where he should be. The referrals are still hanging somewhere in some obscure waiting list.

Sometimes it's just a combination of children developing at a different pace and the diagnostic system not being fit for purpose. But if sitting on your high horse makes you feel better, feel free to go ahead.

I can't even remember what age my kids were fully toilet trained because it's just such an uninteresting and unimportant thing about them, in the scheme of things. I do remember that they were 'ready' in that it was pretty low effort on all our parts - they weren't pissing all over the floor or needing me to chase them around with a potty.

How does anyone have the headspace to care how other people approach this? Honestly, there is so much more to life.