To think that “mental load” is just another way to moan about normal adult life?

I think you have a problem with women. You're either a man or a woman with a hell of a lot of internalised misogyny. Either way, it's all rather odd!

The vast majority of women work and do the majority of childcare too. Your weird narrative that women want kids so that they don't have to work is plainly wrong. You do also realise that men aren't some mute passengers in life? If a woman is openly saying that they are TTC she is hardly baby trapping him is she? He is at complete liberty to leave the relationship or stop trying for a baby if he doesn't want to become a father.

How many men actually want children at all? when I hear 'we are TTC' how much is the 'we' of that?

How many men want children but not to look after them? A lot more than some who just want to not work, just about every woman I know works.

Childcare responsibilities is that code for 'if I am SAHM then I have failed' if fathers turned around and said ''right lets swap you go do my job and I will stay home and be a stay at home dad'' how many women would jump at that chance?

I am not saying all men and women think the same but how many women only want children so they dont have to work

Ok simple question - how much of the mental load would vanish if women decided not to feel judged every time they took a breath?

Oh dear, OP. From the number of threads on here from women who are expected (normally by their “D”H’s) to take on all the childcare responsibilities while working full time and keeping on top of the housework, meal planning, laundry and cooking with little or no input from said DH, I would have thought that most people would be able to work out the mental load that comes with it!

Because these things have wider repercussions. Life would be so much easier if they didn't but the reality is that they just do.

With family cards and presents, if you are married with children then gifts will be viewed as being from you as a couple and as a family. It is incredibly awkward to not give someone a gift when one is expected and it can be embarrassing for the children when they're old enough to realise what is going on. It can hurt feelings and damage relationships that are important to maintaining good family dynamics. My DH is fantastic at this kind of thing but I absolutely would step in and get my MIL a card and gift if he forgot as I know she won't get one from anyone else if he forgets and she would be really upset and hurt. It's real humans we are talking about with real complex feelings. Not just tasks that can be ignored out of principle and to make a point.

This is even more true when it comes to anything related to children. Not many mothers will allow their children to suffer in order to make a point to their husbands. It's cruel and pushing the consequence onto an innocent party that you love dearly.

As others have said, it’s the doing these tasks for another adult that’s the problem!

It really isn't the same. Having children is the game changer because it creates a unique situation where you both are equally responsible for the creation of a dependent that adds enormously to the mental load. Childfree people are different because they almost always are caregivers to people that are related to one half of the couple so it's more obvious that the caring duties and responsibilities would fall to one person in the relationship. It isn't such a breeding ground for resentment and anger.

Maybe they’ve experienced this though. I am
all about sharing the load and had started to offload gp appts but won’t do this for anything serous after dh taking our dc and coming home unable to tell me if the doctor thought he had asthma or not, and not tell
the week following telling me dc needed some tablets. Which I told him was absolute shite, but my dcs health is important so I’m now less willing to delegate there when it comes to diagnosing potentially serious conditions. He picks clothes and buys birthday presents and I accept whatever comes there, he did go to
the gp recently to check what travel vaccinations the dc need but that is more black and white.

we have vaccinations booked for our dc, have been into the pharmacy and asked about medical supplies we should take, bought some extra traveling stuff (bags, washing line, quick dry hats etc) , some books for them, and we certainly aren’t going to leave them to pack- we will write a list, they pack it and we check as it’s too complicated to find . It really depends on your holidays doesn’t it?

I would have thought the same as you before I had kids but the stress of the mental load is real and it is exhausting. My partner definitely does his share in the house of visible tasks (hoovering and dishes mainly) but he has to be told exactly what to do or he will not think of the one small thing I didn’t tell him and it will be my fault. I have stopped doing his laundry with mine as it was driving me mad when he would ask where x bit of clothes is but now I have to remind him to do it and to hang it out (or he’ll let several loads accumulate and want to do them all the day before people are visiting or we’re going away) - I often just get frustrated and do it myself. He used to be able to see the house needed cleaning or pack what he needed for holidays but since having a kid he has definitely put all organisation things in my bucket and he just does what he is told and asks me what he has to do like a kid getting chores which is infuriating. If we go out I have to think of what my kid will need to stop all tantrums and disasters but also what he needs so he isn’t complaining of being cold, thirsty, hungry, dry eyes etc… holidays, day trips, overnights it is all up to me. I write lists for him and he will still forget stuff and say he didn’t see it on the list. It is exhausting - honestly! Sundays he doesn’t think about getting our kids stuff ready for the next day or having food in for her lunches, or dinners - he actually doesn’t know what goes in her nursery bag but will rush out to get in his own lunch stuff. He only ever knows we need something when it’s out and then says “I thought we would have had that in”. Similarly if our child has outgrown something “I thought we would have organised a new one” which obviously gets a heated response.

If people visit it is the same, shopping, cleaning, planning etc are all on me and he doesn’t understand why I get stressed. He says work is stressful so he doesn’t have the capacity to think of the small day to day stuff anymore but doesn’t understand that being forced to be responsible for everyone in the house is also stressful.

No thanks. I like my 35-hour workweek and spending the rest on hobbies and self care.

Good god!

And misogynist of the day goes to …….

It’s hardly the same, is it? How many child free people are caring for 2 or 3 people full time? Very very few. And the ones that do aren’t going to be posting this faux confusion about what “mental load” means.

Try doing it with a SEN child on top of an 80 hour work week and then tell me it’s not burdonsome.

It's funny that you mention Scandinavia. I am in Denmark, and traditional gender roles within relationships and marriages are as prevelant here as anywhere else in the world. Paternity leave does not force those men not interested in sharing the burden suddenly do their part. Good on those women who left their "shitty" partners. It isn't as easy for many women to leave even abusive and violent relationships, let alone unequal ones. At the same time there's plenty of people who complain about the amount of children growing up without a father figure and its potential impact on society. The sort of comments that just blame the woman for remaining is laughable to be honest. This problem hasn't substantially changed since recorded human history, but here come people like you who say oh it's so simple.

This absolutely nails it. The exact situation a lot of women are in. It’s not as simple a just leaving .

Very well said.

”Society” never made me accept a shitty partner.

Unfortunately no matter how nasty, lowdown and repulsive the man, there is always some lower woman who will service their sexual wants, be their skivvy, fork over her money and bear their offspring.

So where’s the incentive for them to change?

Why can’t he remember bin day -write an online shopping list/go to the supermarket? If he can’t remember what time to collect your DC, is he unable to remember the time to go to work, attend a meeting? Sounds like he unemployable?

Unsurprisingly, you can only fully see how a person behaves as a parent once they actually are a parent.. Or even if some women were naive and hoped that fatherhood will change their bone idle uncaring partner - yes ok, should have chosen better, your own fault - but should they not be allowed to even complain about their life?

Just because something is happening as a trend in society doesn’t mean you have to repeat it in your personal life. The personal is political. The more women resist and say fuck this shit, make their expectations clear at the start of relationships and don’t take on their partner’s stuff, and leave relationships that don’t meet their minimum requirements, the more wider culture will start to change. There also needs to be longer paternity leaves and enforced SPL to get men doing their bit right from the moment a baby is born, like Scandinavia.