To think that people pretend not to understand obesity

Things I have observed.

There have been a lot of threads like this one over recent months along with a lot of "Why can't people just eat less?" threads over the years.

More recently, there have been a lot of threads about UPFs. People asking how they can cut down, people asking what they are and people asking if they're really that bad.

On the latter threads, there will be many posters mocking, deriding and disbelieving those who state they cook from scratch either all the time or as often as they can or just avoid UPFs 80%+ of the time. Nothing wrong with UPFs - no different, tastes just as good (if not better) than the real thing 👍

Posters explain that food is addictive and designed to be addictive. They are right but it is UPF food that they are describing when they say that. Because, as others have pointed out, salad, vegetables and meat aren't addictive.

We can't have a narrative that states UPFs are exactly the same as freshly prepared food and an absolutely fine food choice whilst simultaneously people are scratching their heads about obesity.

My exh was obese. He just couldn't see it in himself. He'd see people on TV etc and say, "But no one wakes up one day weighting 25 stone. There's a point when they're only 15 stone. Why don't they do something about it then?" At a point when he was more than 15 stone. He just couldn't apply it to himself because he didn't see it in himself.

He also used to say he worked hard (he did) so he 'deserved' that family sized bar of chocolate, ful sugar coke, grab bag of steak McCoys and a big bag of sweets every evening in front of the TV. And that's because he was different from all the lazy overweight/obese people watching Jeremy Kyle and stuffing their faces all day who didn't deserve it but just couldn't stop themselves.

After we separated, he was diagnosed with T2 diabetes and high blood pressure. He was angry about the T2D because he didn't deserve it because he wasn't as 'bad' as all the other people with it. He refused to manage it properly and ended up in hospital for it several times during the first 18 months after diagnosis.

He was just in complete denial. He is now slim and has been for nearly a decade (aside from a few blips). So he did get a handle on it in the end and no longer has T2D.

I'm not overweight (anymore). I didn't restrict my eating, I didn't use will power and I didn't starve myself in a calorie deficit. I just thpught - why am i filling myself with so much crap? made better food choices and stopped eating UPF. I didn't even up my exercise. I just made a conscious choice to eat differently and didn't see it as a short term fix. So I changed my way of eating rather than 'going on a diet'.

Look at it on the other end of the scale- if someone is too thin as a result of taking exercise to the extreme or dieting to the extreme should I feel sympathy? On the other hand I can feel sympathy for someone who is anorexic as that is a mental health illness. So the OP wants people to appreciate how hard it is for obese people but that only applies in cases where people are only obese due to an actual medical condition, not just bad choices. Some slim people put the effort in to remain in shape, it's not all just luck.

@NorthernGirl1981 sorry I didn’t explain myself very well. All the people I know who got it via NHS got it for diabetes, because other diabetes medications weren’t working, it was not prescribed because of their weight. All I meant to add, rightly or wrongly, was that they all had a weight problem as well, but that was not the reason that it was prescribed. I understand that this is how these drugs have come about. They’ve been used for years to treat diabetes type two and been found to have the benefit of weight loss as a side-effect. I don’t know anyone who’s been prescribed it on the NHS purely for weight loss. Regardless of any other health conditions that they may have had.

Ok so explain how coming from a poor background means you are more likely to be obese? Since you are referring to fat cells as being the issue.

This is a very black and white view.

Genetics and income play a huge role in weight.

Many people who have always been slim either have slim genetics, don’t come from a poor background or both.

If you have always been slim then you will not have the fat cells in your body, which makes it easier to remain slim.

When you have been overweight and lose weight your fat cells shrink but they stay in your body. It is much easier to ‘refill’ a fat cell than create one.

I believe the amount of fat cells are determined when you are a child and so some people are predisposed to gain weight. I don’t think they ever die or it takes years for them to die.

So a naturally slim person will be less likely to gain weight and find it easier to maintain their weight because they don’t have as many fat cells in their body.
Someone who has more fat cells is going to put on weight way quicker and struggle to maintain their weight.

YANBU, and I see a number of posters have already turned up to illustrate your point.

One of which found "Researchers found that one in every 337 people (0.3% of participants) may carry a faulty version of the MC4R gene, making their brains sense that they have slightly less fat than they actually do. This drives them to eat more and leads to increased weight gain in childhood."

Everyone’s needs are important, including one’s own, but sometimes life throws challenges that make it hard to attain text book balance. At that point we have choices.

Without wanting to give too much detail, my friend’s DH has been unable to work and that condition has left him severely depressed. My friend carries the earning responsiblity for the family, but on top of that the father’s depression has rubbed off on one of the Dc who now struggles with anxiety. Frequently she is left managing a child with school anxiety then racing late to work - which is an all-important financial support for them all - and having to grab a bite from wherever. It’s those little stressors every day that mean rising to a workout and a healthy breakfast before leaving the house are just tricky for her - especially as she prioritises getting a healthy breakfast into the Dc. Yes she could get up earlier but she’s exhausted. Rinse and repeat at the end of the day - plus she also takes care of an elderly relative because all the rest of the family are “ putting on their own oxygen masks”. What it comes down to is someone has to do it, and there are some types who just have that softer heart.

Then her mil turns round and said “ when you are short of money, I don’t know why you bought those new clothes. You haven’t got the figure to show them off.” So you see why I can feel protective…

This debate about willpower etc comes up often on Mumsnet and I can see both sides of it, and it's more complex than either 'side' often presents. For full disclosure, I am a healthy weight but have previously been overweight, though never obese.

For some people, being thin is clearly easy, or easier. They are naturally inclined not to overeat, they don't get the 'food noise', they don't like feeling too full etc. I can sort of relate to this because it's how I feel about alcohol. I never want more than a drink or two, hate feeling drunk. There is zero risk of me ever becoming an alcoholic.

But I'm different with food. I come from an overweight family who have always overeaten and implicitly encouraged me to do so, they all say I currently 'look very thin' (I'm 10.5 stone and 5 foot 5 so a healthy weight but by no means 'thin'), I love food, and I particularly love sugar and could very easily be overweight.

I put a lot of work into remaining a healthy weight. It's not about 'dieting', it's about consistently making the right choices every day and doing tons of exercise. Luckily I quite enjoy exercise. And luckily I also am reasonably happy, have a job I like, enough money and other privileges that mean I can buy good food, join a gym, have a cleaner so I have more time to exercise at the weekend etc. I don't kid myself that if my life looked different and was tougher in any of a number of ways, I would make worse eating choices and probably be overweight.

But for this reason I think it's wrong to present obesity as a 'condition' that always requires medical intervention. Maybe it does sometimes. But I see it as closer to alcoholism. It's a potential addiction that can be overcome with willpower and determination and a lot of constant hard work. Not by everyone. But by some people. I'm not against people taking weight loss drugs in any way if it works for them - particularly as a temporary kick-start. But I think when people say 'I've tried every diet and they don't work'... diets don't work, that's true. But permanently eating a lot less and doing loads of exercise does work if you're willing to do it permanently. And I say this with no judgement about how hard it is to do it permanently.

There are a number of studies recently that point to a faulty gene causing obesity, hence why it runs in families. These people have to work considerably harder to maintain a healthy weight than those without the faulty gene. This is one but there are more.

www.bristol.ac.uk/alspac/participants/discoveries/body-weight/#:~:text=Obesity%20often%20runs%20in%20families,early%20onset%20obesity%20since%201998.

How do you know that. If she doesn't feel she faces any barrier to romance, doesn't feel any bad heath effects yet, why on earth should she feel the need to lose weight and give up the food she loves..she even told me the fat acceptance in the uk is why she lives here, you can be a happy obese or fat person here and no one gives you a second look..

Obesity is not an ED though, it can be the result of one but not always.

Some people are obese because they use food for comfort / emotional reasons and the solution for them is to work on the underlying issue.

But we can’t deny that others are obese because they like food and don’t want to change their habits. A bit extreme, but say you told people
they could be thin but could never eat dessert or fried food ever again. Some would say yes, some would say no. And that’s fair enough! My point is, when there is no significant underlying emotional issue, being overweight can also be because you like food more than you like being slim.

I think what some obese people don’t realise is that it takes the vast majority of people a lot of will power to stay slim

On what do you base "it takes the vast majority of people a lot of will power to stay slim"?

very few people over 30 can eat what they like, do no exercise and stay slim.

But keeping an eye on what you eat (I don't mean restricting or being obsessed, just putting good food into your body) and exercising shouldn't take mighty will power, these things should be the norm.

And what do you mean by 'eat what they like'? Over eating, or just eating what they fancy? I think there are plenty of people who follow their hunger (ie eat what they like), do little exercise and stay slim. They might not be particularly healthy, but their weight isn't a problem.

So it seems like with the NHS you must have a weight related health condition, you must prove you’ve tried traditional diet and exercise regimes first, and you have to be referred to specialist services before weight loss treatment can be considered?

Whereas that isn’t the case if you go private and as long as you’re overweight and can afford it you can purchase the drug?

@Calliopespa I know three people getting it on the NHS, but all because of type two diabetes, not because of weight, even though weight is definitely a factor in all of the cases. And I know two people paying for it, but both started out in the obese BMI category, which is where I think the benefit outweighing the risk comes from. I don’t think it’s a miracle though, it still requires dedication and effort, and can have some unpleasant side effects. I have seen your late post that is a very interesting take and I can definitely see that with people that I know.

That's an interesting take, I'm from a very slim family, and I actually do tell my children that they must centre themselves in their own existence. That they must be their number one priority, not to be selfish dickheads, to be kind and helpful and to consider others, but their needs are important.

So there may be some truth in what you say!

It was my understanding that the NHS criteria is quite strict with regards to who can or can’t have it, which is why so many people pay privately for it.

I don’t think the NHS hand it out to anyone who is overweight as I imagine that would be VERY expensive.

I think people look down their noses at addiction full stop, you only have to ask a smoker or an alcoholic.

And yet very often the people looking down their noses at them, are obese.

People point fingers at others because while they're doing that, they're not pointing at themselves.

I think what some obese people don’t realise is that it takes the vast majority of people a lot of will power to stay slim and so those people think that if they can maintain the will
power why can’t others. Very few people over 30 can eat what they like, do no exercise and stay slim.

So I guess these weight loss jabs are kind of viewed as buying yourself an easy option so you don’t need to maintain your will power through your life to maintain your health. Hence all the comments about. Not saying they’re right but I can see why they feel like this. Personally I’d rather do the portion control and exercise way as I don’t trust these jabs but I don’t have a serious food addiction. I guess if you do they could be the only way you feel you can loose weight.

I’m not coming from a place of knowledge on this so add that as disclaimer, but I thought it was free after you reached the point that it was judged the benefits outweighed the risks?

@NorthernGirl1981 I hate the fact that people who need this drug can’t access it. The nhs criteria to prescribe it need to be reviewed as very few people get it and it’s a life changing drug.

I saved for ages to be able to buy it. My pot is emptying rapidly. I’m lucky to have been able to save but it shouldn’t be like that.

I’m hoping that as new drugs emerge costs go down and more people will be able to access it

No, I think I pretty much said the opposite actually.

I was just asking if those who don’t have the money to pay for it should have some price concessions available to them so they can still benefit from it.

But from a moral stance, and not a judgemental one, how do you feel about the fact that you can afford to pay for treatment and improve your health as a result, whereas another person who has the exact same problem as you has no option but to suffer the chronic ill-effects of obesity because they don’t have the spare income to afford MJ?

Are you saying we have some sort of moral obligation not to take MJ if we can afford to do so?

What a strange stance.

Ignore them, they are idiots. You're doing something amazing for yourself. I wish you the very best of luck.

Wow! Well done on losing so much weight, that’s an amazing achievement.

Over the last 12 months I have noticed myself getting slowly bigger and my clothes getting tighter but I buried my head in the sand. I lead a sedentary lifestyle and would snack during the day and eat large portions of food. I started to dislike what I saw in the mirror and even though I was unhappy I didn’t change my behaviour…. It was really odd. Was I expecting the weight to just suddenly drop off me or something?!

Then, I had to weigh myself in February for a hospital appointment and when I saw the reading I was so upset because I hadn’t realised how heavy I’d allowed myself to get. That was my starting point, right then, and I changed my diet from the next day, I reduced my portion sizes, stopped eating chocolate, crisps, biscuits and rubbish foods, and increased how much exercise I did each week.

I’ve lost 9.5lbs in almost 5 weeks just from making these small changes and it’s made
me realise that I can lose weight….I just needed the motivation and stamina to stick at it.

This is just my experience of course and is not meant to be judgemental (for want of a better word) to those who do have food addictions. I know it’s a completely different scenario.