To think that people pretend not to understand obesity

@Mayana1 if you’ve been diagnosed with an eating disorder you won’t be able to get Mounjaro either through the NHS or privately.

I really sympathise.

Hassle your go, @Mayana1 , go on and on about it. Don’t take anti depressants (which can lead to weight gain), you know yourself

Oh my, good for you. I don't think I am eligible to get a mounjaro on NHS, although I classify as obese, but I don't have diabetes or other condition to get it. And unfortunately I just can not afford it by myself.
I have been diagnosed with nor purging bulimia. I had no idea such a thing exists. My GP told me, that is same as classic bulimia (you overeat, you feel bad about it, but you don't go and throw up). And she prescribed me something for my mood (I googled, it's antidepressive). I wish she would prescribed me mounjaro instead.

Yes you have a good point @AvantiAreShit thinness and cultural perception of virtue have long gone hand in hand haven’t they? Definitely aided by media, fashion industry , celeb culture and even more from the Insta age of SM.

Yeah same here, I don’t think is the majority of slim built folk, I’ve got slim friends and love them dearly and can tell there is no size prejudice there. They might still suspect I’m a greedy moobar but I like them too much to care! 😅 I guess it is the hurtful exchanges we remember and the ability to pick up the ‘vibes’ from those who are clearly uncomfortable in the company of a big person. It does rather put me in mind if Dr Suess’s the Star Bellied Sneeches. Whether those who have been able to reach and maintain a healthy bmi with the aid of WL medications will still be viewed as inferior as the non-WL sneeches even though they look the same.

Thank you @Ohioatdawn I thought it was interesting too :) and when searching for the original article I read came across other articles about other gene studies going on. It seems to be an active growing area of research and the fact that keys into the causes of disease are coming to light (many different diseases, not just obesity ) and how they can be treated is really promising.

Oh the hatred is real @Mylegishangingoff sad but true 😞

Most people cannot help their faces, the true feelings can be easily seen even if they think they’re doing a good job disguising it. Plenty more who are all too happy to openly vent their disgust.
I lack confidence and know a lot of other obese people who do, and for too long we have absorbed the blows of others. Weight discrimination is real and boy is it ugly.

I will also say I have seen slim people being treated badly and spoken to nastily, probably because they are slim. I had a lovely colleague who suffered badly in this way and bullied at work I think due to her appearance as she was slim and pretty, also young.

I wish there could just be more compassion for everyone, regardless of size. No one should be made to feel ‘less” because of how they look

Me too.
I'm constantly under my TDEE. By a lot.
It's so miserable.

People can make dietary choices but it is not the whole picture. Obesity is complex but I think there is a lot of fear fuelling people’s prejudice, they don’t want to believe significant weight gain might just happen to them one day and they may face the same barriers of being able to shift it. Seems to impact a lot of women at menopause and it’s because of all the hormones going up the wonk and metabolic slump.

Agree, but I think also some of it is the awareness that Mounjaro et al are breaking the link between thinness and perceived virtue. Ie that the barrier might not be there in the same way very soon.

The rarity value of thinness is being undermined, meaning there won't be as many social benefits accrue to those who are thin. So not fear as much as resentment. This is not all thin people by any means, lots of them very much don't buy into this. I don't think I did, back when I was thin. Only the sort of person you're talking about.

I read your reply with great interest and appreciation, thank you!
How interesting.
I shall enjoy reading the article you've posted.
I am so certain that we are at the very beginning of learning about obesity as a condition. I'm sure we will make breakthroughs in our understanding of it.
I feel like, in decades to come, we will say "And to think we used to accuse all those people with obesity of simply eating too much! Thank goodness we now understand there is so much more to it than that!"

Same here with the prejudice Ohio. It really sucks ☹️ I’m not perfect in my diet as I’m sure most aren’t, but predominantly have home made healthy, drink loads of water due to my medical conditions, zero alcohol and under TDEE most days.

Sorry, here’s the article mentioned above:

https://www.labroots.com/trending/genetics-and-genomics/17687/alk-skinny-gene?srsltid=AfmBOorJafbHfPau2BEFo2v4VR9M5xA_P1u1DXnHfk9mgyP7IvjVeUDb

I tried to find an article I read previously that was really interesting on the subject of genetics and some research that has taken place on the ALK gene. Very interesting genetic discoveries being made about the role of genes and body size. It involved a large sample bio bank study, a mouse study and fruit fly study. I couldn’t find the exact article but here is a similar one reporting on the same. The other article described the research findings as the mice with ‘a superpower to stay skinny no matter how much they ate’, and the food tested was high cals/ fat they described as the equivalent of ‘a McDonalds a day diet’.

Apparently the mice who did NOT have the ALK gene that ate this high calorie diet stayed thin no matter how much they ate, including super unhealthy fast foods, while their ALK (activated) litter mates became obese.

It seems ALK inhibitors are already used in cancer treatment (as there is a link there) but they are discovering the role the gene plays in weight and metabolism too. The other article I read said something about the removal of this gene also did not negatively impact muscle mass loss as such can happen with losing weight.

I have a similar DH who eats like a horse and stays a stable, slim healthy BMI. Whereas my weight has always been a battle. Even when I was slim I had to work hard to stay there, until I got ill and then nothing worked.

Maybe our DH’s lack this ALK gene! And others who stay slim no matter how much they eat. There is a lot of genetics and hormonal governing going on n our bodies beneath the currents.

People can make dietary choices but it is not the whole picture. Obesity is complex but I think there is a lot of fear fuelling people’s prejudice, they don’t want to believe significant weight gain might just happen to them one day and they may face the same barriers of being able to shift it. Seems to impact a lot of women at menopause and it’s because of all the hormones going up the wonk and metabolic slump.

MJ/Ozempic etc, makes you much more efficient at responding to insulin, so it has cut how much fast acting insulin I need to take to avoid my BG shooting up in response to perfectly healthy foods like fruit and veg (never mind the carbs!), by TWO THIRDS.

Its the difference between stacking on both fat and retained fluid and actively losing it. For someone who can't move, in my case beacuse I am a wheelchair user, this is a game changer. The reduction in hunger is a nice side effect, but that is all it is.

@HaddyAbrams, I couldn't agree more. My ex would say, but cheese is healthy! It's full of protein. 🙄🙄🙄And well, just have fruit then, but I'd say, full of sugar and he'd be confused. But it's FRUIT not chocolate!

@Winifredtabago. I agree with you. There is a need for deferred gratification and that's not easy when you can eat anything at anytime, anywhere. I started to gain weight in my late twenties and later found that my thyroid had packed up. It was so very hard to lose the weight I'd gained and at times I just gave up the struggle. But at other times I persevered and was able to lose a bit. But by far the biggest weight losses came when I found I had gall stones and the pain from eating fats or oils when gall stones are present is awful. So I had to cut out all fats and oils until I came to the top of the waiting list and that took a year. I lost weight then! A real eye opener for me. After couple of years after that I had a colonoscopy because of other digestive problems. The consultant found nothing untoward and suggested that (as he said) the vast majority of the adult population cannot process dairy (because we are not designed to do so) to cut it out for one month. Magically, no more digestive problems and steady weight loss. I've changed the way I eat mainly to avoid pain and discomfort and I am back to the weight I was when I was in my twenties. I hated being overweight but it didn't stop me eating foods I thought I enjoyed, such as lots of cheese, crisps, chocolate, ice creams and cake. Just my experience I know, but the vast majority of people do lose weight if they eat differently. I was looking at some photos of the seaside town I used to live in as a child. They were taken in the 50's and 60's. The sea front was packed. The pool was packed. Everyone was slender. There was no fast food appearing at the blink of an eye then. We live differently now and it is definitely a case of "The Men Who Made Us Fat" to line their own pockets and now they have people in their pockets because the food they sell is designed to appeal to our primitive need to search out sweet, salty and high calorific foods which worked well when you have to go and get the food from the earth, but not not it's all on the click of an app.

If I has a £ for every time someone told me "maybe you don't understand x" to do with my weight I could probably afford mounjarno.

Honestly. Every time someone tells me I don't understand something, or don't realise whatever to do with food and exercise they are implying I'm stupid. When in fact I probably know more than them. For example, when I was diagnosed with T2 diabetes and decided to switch to a low carb diet so declined jacket potatoes when with a community group I'm part of, more than one of them tried to explain to me that potatoes are healthy and I should eat them. Totally ignoring my own knowledge (and that of my diabetes specialist) and the fact that I had been losing weight by low carbing.

And before I was diagnosed with T2 and other conditions people assumed I was fat and lazy. I was fat due to medical issues, we just didn't know it yet.

That's different. That's a medical reason so not relevant.

I'm speaking about people who CAN lose weight if they WANT to.

I wasn't talking about 'most people'. I was talking about posters who come to a thread like this to say things like, for eg, 'No disrespect but people who are obese obviously don’t try hard enough as they wouldn’t be obese'.
It wouldn't cross my mine to join a thread about how hard quitting drinking is, or how difficult it is to manage depression and tell alcoholics that they are weak minded or depressed people that they should just smile more. It would make me an ignorant, closed minded idiot. Yet when it comes to weight it seems to be open season.

Agreed. Using energy to exercise (and I'm the same as you, I walk a lot as my form of exercise) literally burns calories, and if you have not eaten enough calories, your body will have no choice but to start using its fat stores. It's why exercise bulimia is a recognised eating disorder, it's a legitimate way of controlling and maintaining weight. There will always be outliers in everything, but this blanket 'exercise has no effect on weight' thing is nonsense.

I genuinely don't think that most people give enough thought to 'fatties' to hate 50%+ of the population. We all know overweight people, we all know there are a variety of reasons for it ranging from illness to eats a few too many calories every day for years and the weight creeps on. I don't think most people imagine overweight people to be stupid people gorging themselves on McDonald's everyday, most people have had a bit of weight creep up on them at them some point and know how it easily it can happen. I think some posters are being defensive and self loathing and jumping to extremes.

Just as someone doesn't have to be shouting racial slurs for it to be clear they are racist, someone doesn't have to be shouting I hate fatties for it to be clear that they do. It's dripping off many posts on this thread. We are liars, we are stupid, we are making excuses, we are lazy.... It's amazing how much other people seem to know about what's going on in our lives and with our bodies, when we ourselves are often still trying to work it out.
It's sad that people chose to judge overweight people the way that they do, but as they do it would be less disingenuous to own it.

I don’t disagree about the food industry but at the end of the day you have to eat the junk they produce to get fat and I don’t. I’ve been put on the most restrictive diet you can imagine by my gastro consultant and haven’t touched a upf for over a decade yet I’m still overweight with body fat measurements into obese. I’m not alone. Just look how many people on this thread say the same. I’d also wager that many long term overweight and obese people know more about nutrition and the science behind weight gain and loss than most.

It’s one thing saying that we clean eating fatties are the exception but look how many exceptions have popped up and told their stories on this thread. Some have been heartbreaking. And this is one thread on a forum.

We’ve all been patronised for a long time with the eat less and move more mantra even by medical professionals. I’m delighted that the science behind weight loss has been exploited by the drug companies. It can only lead to a healthier population. Eventually in another decade or two I hope people will understand the science better.

You see I just don't believe this. Well, it's certainly not the case for me. I generally walk 10,000 -15,000 steps a day. That's my only exercise (and I know some people say walking isn't exercise. I disagree!).
During lockdown I reduced this to about 6000 steps a day, simply because I had only one walk a day, the kids were there and moaning the whole time. I actually ate less during lockdown as I was aware I was walking less. Between March and August I put on 12lbs!! So I put on nearly a stone when I was eating slightly less but walking less.
My friend is very fit and active. Eats a lot but stays slim because she walks about 20,000 steps a day. When she broke her ankle and couldn't exercise she put on half a stone fairly quickly. Again, she was eating slightly less than usual.
I'm absolutely certain that activity levels affect weight.

Three big differences really. One, more of the adults smoked. Two, if you go back more than about 90 years, a decent chunk of the population genuinely didn't have enough food. Child malnutrition was widespread in the 1930s. Three, people used more calories to keep themselves warm before central heating. The first two are clearly very bad things that brought their own health problems, and I don't think the third is coming back either.

Agree that we need to find better ways and obese will otherwise become more the default. Because nothing in human history has prepared us for environments where the majority live in abundance. For most of our history, we'd have had no use for the concept of restraint around food, especially the fatty stuff. If anything, the inclination would be a disadvantage. The ability to shove as much high calorie food down your throat as you can hold really might've been the thing that got you through the next lean period. We get obese easily because our bodies still think it's an advantage. The weight loss jabs really have come around at just the right time.

Did you miss this post? It's one of many on here.

wherearemypastnames · Today 11:41
Unless you carefully weighed and measured everything before and after I don’t think you are telling the truth saying you are eating more and losing weight - it would be very unusual and there are far too many people claiming to be special when it comes to their weight problems
i do agree that once you have screwed up your insulin system by overloading it everything gets a lot more complex
but the excuses on here “it’s more complex” do nothing to explain why the people who eat more and eat more crap are heavier than those who dont
i see a lot of overweight people with “no idea” why they are that big and claiming its hormones* and complexity - but politeness prevents me from spelling it out that I can see what they eat