Page 2 | He invaded my space/was creepy. I feel angry - even days afterwards.

Original poster

septembernights · 04/04/2025 15:45

UPDATE

I posted here about 2 weeks ago. I am the OP of this thread. I left the thread feeling supported (gratefully so) yet also disheartened at some (albeit very few) of the responses I received. I felt compelled to give an update given what transpired a few days ago/earlier this week.

I ended up going back to my hotel bar - my ‘local’ as per my OP. This time with my (female) friend. The man I referred to in my OP was there. I ignored him and was pleased to have my friend with me and to be able to enjoy the glorious weather. About 20 mins in, he attempted to send a drink over to me and my friend via the bartender. My friend was already aware of what had happened before. We politely declined the drink said to the bartender we ‘were (kindly) not wanting to accept drinks’. The bartender was very polite, understanding and completely ‘aware’ that no drinks were to be sent over nor paid for by someone else etc…

I soon after (in more detail) told the bartender and his colleague (who know me) that he had bothered me once before - not in a dramatic kind of way. I mentioned that was annoying/persistent/creepy - but I still maintained that I wasn’t out to ‘cause trouble’. I asked them to just ‘be aware’. Before anyone asks, no I didn’t expect them to ‘take care of it’ like something out of an action/Hollywood movie - or do something drastic like call the police - that would be ridiculous. Also, I could feel/see the man staring at me while I was talking to the bartender, so I kept it as brief as possible whilst still having a smile on my face.

Frankly, I wanted to be immersed in conversation with my friend above all else, who I hadn’t seen in months.

He left about 45 mins later. The bar manager (not to be confused with the bartender) came over to me afterwards (who also knows me) and said ‘measures could be taken’ if needed as they wouldn’t tolerate any ‘unwelcome behaviour on their premises’. I repeated that it was more that I just wanted it ‘noted’ and that he shouldn’t be allowed to harass anyone (not necessarily me - but anyone!)

Also @Devonshiregal I was not the person who said bar staff should have intervened in my OP. Someone else said that in this thread (actually many people did) - and the thread took a different turn as a result.

About an hour after that, my friend left. Her Uber arrived at the bar entrance to the hotel (which is the side entrance) - and mine arrived at the front entrance by the lobby. I hugged her and proceeded to leave.

I left the hotel and started walking down the steps towards the street/to find my Uber. The doorman had opened the door at the top of the steps. The Uber wasn’t directly outside the entrance, but not far off. Just before I found/reached my Uber, the man in question jogged towards my Uber (from behind and then around) and gestured that he was to open the door. He actually grabbed the handle before I did! I was shocked to see him still near the premises as he had left over an hour prior. Almost two hours earlier, rather.

I yelped/screamed and jumped backwards. I didn’t register it was him at first to be honest - and thought I was being mugged for my bag/iPhone!! Then I thought I had perhaps approached someone else’s Uber - despite checking the plate first.

He had his other hand on my back almost guiding me towards the car seat. I wriggled out fast enough.

The doorman (and another colleague) came down the steps and loudly blew a whistle (that I didn’t even know they had!) I ran to them and shouted: “GO AWAY!!” to the man. The car door was still open. He just stared at me and gave me this almost evil smile before being a bit more ‘alert’ - and once again - like last time - profusely ‘faux apologising’ once the two staff members could have potentially been aware of anything untoward happening. He claimed he was only trying to ‘open the car door for me’. Things were a bit frantic after that. I informed the doorman and his colleague of what had happened within the hotel and that I felt like he was waiting outside for me. I say that not to sound arrogant, but I believe he was angry at me/the bartender/the hotel etc…

I spoke to the hotel today. The bar manager called me back and pretty much said what I thought he’d say. He said the man likely got defensive about his drinks being rebuffed - and knew that he couldn’t misbehave on hotel premises - hence hanging around. I suspect because the bartender didn’t ‘try harder’ for us to accept the drinks (which he didn’t need to!) - he got angry and hung around the entrance. I asked if there had been any ‘history’ with him - and the manager said ‘no’ but that he was a semi-regular and always alone. He also said one incident was enough though and that he wouldn’t be allowed back on the premises. Whether that holds weight or not, I do not know. The bar manager said he - and the hotel manager too - had checked the CCTV both inside/outside of the hotel. Granted, this only stretched to the street outside. The man did leave the hotel when I thought he did. He left at 7:19pm. I left at 9:10pm. So it wasn’t like he moved to a different bar within the hotel and we happened to leave at the same time.

I believe I dodged a very creepy and dangerous man - and am further convinced that I was not overreacting last time (see OP).

—

For those (women, mind you) who told me to ‘get a grip’ (see comments) and said that I needed to ‘move on’ etc… upon the initial incident (see my OP), I hope you are ashamed of yourselves - and I hope you never experienced what I did. Granted, the initial encounter wasn’t the worst thing in the world (which I acknowledged in my OP) - but it also wasn’t ‘nothing’.

Whilst no one on this thread was actually there with me - both at the time of me posting initially - and earlier this week - and whilst I perhaps I didn’t convey the depths of my uncomfortableness in my OP - his last comment about ‘knowing he’d see me again’ was what set me off and unnerved me most - and sure enough, look what happened.

To be clear, it wasn’t a ‘working day’ when I was there in my OP yet some said I was ‘unprofessional’ by ‘working out of a bar’ (which I wasn’t doing). I had every right to check emails/respond - but I was not using the bar as my office - and even if I was working out of the bar - it doesn’t excuse his behaviour. I had also brought my book too to read (see OP). Some people’s logic is extremely flawed.

—

To those that understood/empathised with me - thank you.

To those who have had similar/worse experiences - I’m so very sorry you had to experience such a thing. Trust your instincts. They could save your life. (Before anyone jumps at me for potentially being a ‘drama queen’ - no, I’m not implying I could have been killed this week…! I’m simply informing women to trust themselves and their gut).

OP posts:

FfionLouse · 01/04/2025 09:26

DD has a man slap her bum in a bar. She told the bouncers, who found him, checked kicked him out and banned him from the venue after they forced him to apologise. They offered to hold him if she wanted to call the police, but she declined

RawBloomers · 31/03/2025 22:22

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Well yes, the license holder is obliged to hire the staff necessary to deal with bad behaviour. Though I will say bar staff have been dealing with this for a lot less money for a long, long time. If the hotel want to pay their staff so little they aren’t prepared to ask them to do the job they need them to, that’s definitely a problem at odds with how drinking establishments are supposed to be allowed to operate in the UK.

This is not something women should have to deal with. Pushing up prices and closing bars is preferable to having spaces where men drink and then harass women.

slothandloaf · 31/03/2025 09:08

I do think it’s a v difficult area for bar manager /staff to intervene. I think we’re all agreeing on the underlying feeling of threat we re made to feel when there are not overt signs of harassment that prevent us from being able to escalate it. If perhaps this guy refused to leave OP alone the manager would have more clear grounds to ask him to leave or at least leave her alone. But how safe does she feel about leaving alone? Having publicly humiliated/rebuffed him will he be waiting for her /follow her home /onto transport? How do we know if this a cocky arrogant water of a duck’s back kind of man who hits on women daily or someone less resilient & dangerous? The manosphere manual actively teaches shows of dominance, owning of territory & what us women call harassment levels of attention disguised as acceptable ways of meeting women in person. It’s a minefield.

Devonshiregal · 30/03/2025 23:49

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BlindBat · 30/03/2025 22:52

Devonshiregal · 30/03/2025 18:39

Erm what do you mean a nuisance? Because if every manager jumped in between any man talking to a woman in a pub, they’d have no returning customers pretty quickly. They have a duty to, as far as reasonably possible, protect anyone in their premises from violence and harassment - this would include calling the police, not necessarily flinging themselves in harms way. This man just talked to this woman, who, might I add, talked right back to him!! She didn’t like him but why on earth would a manager or staff member think to intervene. And if she said she found him creepy, what would they do? Go up to him and say ‘hey, just so you know, that woman who you just had a conversation with and have now stopped talking to, yeah..she doesn’t want to fuck you.” ….to what ends? They’d already stopped talking and he was weird but she’s admitted she didn’t actually do much to show she didn’t want to talk.

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This is difficult to read, mainly for your standards.
You've previously said you don't have any responsibility for the safety of your clientele, to be followed by yes, you have a duty (it's a duty of care) I've read your posts and am disappointed, however very glad my DS &DD will be able to advocate for themselves in the same circumstances, when you have made it perfectly clear you won't/cannot.

Vannymcvan · 30/03/2025 22:31

Rainingalldayonmyhead · 28/03/2025 22:58

But you were drinking at a bar so you can see where there may have been some confusion. Doesn’t excuse his behaviour but drinking at a bar working isn’t exactly screaming professional.

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I can't believe I've just read that.

Devonshiregal · 30/03/2025 21:55

RawBloomers · 30/03/2025 20:16

RTFT and you will know that your made up scenario is not what I was talking about.

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I did and it is. She didn’t have anything happen to her. She felt he was a creep. But she chatted to him and he didn’t ACTUALLY do anything wrong.

RawBloomers · 30/03/2025 20:16

Devonshiregal · 30/03/2025 18:39

Erm what do you mean a nuisance? Because if every manager jumped in between any man talking to a woman in a pub, they’d have no returning customers pretty quickly. They have a duty to, as far as reasonably possible, protect anyone in their premises from violence and harassment - this would include calling the police, not necessarily flinging themselves in harms way. This man just talked to this woman, who, might I add, talked right back to him!! She didn’t like him but why on earth would a manager or staff member think to intervene. And if she said she found him creepy, what would they do? Go up to him and say ‘hey, just so you know, that woman who you just had a conversation with and have now stopped talking to, yeah..she doesn’t want to fuck you.” ….to what ends? They’d already stopped talking and he was weird but she’s admitted she didn’t actually do much to show she didn’t want to talk.

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RTFT and you will know that your made up scenario is not what I was talking about.

Bikergran · 30/03/2025 19:30

septembernights · 28/03/2025 19:11

Hi,

I was debating posting this, but I can't keep it in any longer and feel like I need a safe space to vent/question if I am being unreasonable.

The other day, after visiting my goddaughter, I had some time to kill - before heading out for dinner. I went to a hotel bar as I was in the city. It's a bar I've been going to for 20+ years. I had my work bag (thinking I was going to head to the office once free) but because dinner was nearby to where my goddaughter and her mother were - I decided to work at the bar. It's a lovely establishment, not loud etc... I also had a book in my bag.

I get to the bar and immediately 'feel' a man opposite staring at me. I shook it off and got my laptop/book out. Still, I could feel him staring. He then looked like he was leaving - great! He ended up coming over to me, saying hello - and asking if I could watch his stuff for him... except his stuff was on the other side of the bar...? I said 'I'm sure your stuff will be fine - no one is going to steal it!'

He then came back, got his belongings, sat next to me and offered me some chocolates - which was in one of the bags. I politely declined. He didn't relent/move. He acknowledged that he noticed the staff were familiar with me and said this place must be 'my local' - as it was his too. Great(!)

He ordered himself a drink - and offered me one. I said no. He then kept trying to chat - and after some polite interaction and I explained that I had work to do. He apologised and then touched me on my shoulder and in one movement - moved his hands down to mine and apologised again. I recoiled away from him. He must have thought he was being a gentleman in the way he was profusely apologising, but it really didn't feel like that.

I said I was going to move - at which point he proceeded to wrap up/leave. He asked for my number - I said no - and then said: 'Not to worry, since this is your local - I'm sure I'll see you in here again soon, no doubt...' - but he said it with a smile. He told me to 'take care' as he left. I found out he settled my check/bill - which annoyed me. I am capable of buying my own wine. I don't want to 'owe' him anything should I ever see him again.

It has been a few days now and I am mad - as in really angry. I'm angry that I wasn't stronger - even though he didn't do anything so awful. I feel like I can't go back to my place again. The older I get, the less patience I have. I wish I had the guts to speak up more and could have told him to F off. I'm tired of being 'nice' for fear of a man getting angry/violent.

Sorry if this is nonsensical - I'm just angry and raging. I'm getting my period next week, so maybe I am PMS-ing. But AIBU to feel angry days later? Why didn't I speak up? Why didn't I just move from the outset?

Please no abusive comments. I think I am just sensitive at the moment. :(

We are conditioned to be polite. You have no reason to be polite, so don't be. If he turns up again, firstly immediately produce the price of the wine in cash (have it ready just in case) and put it in front of him. Say, "I don't know why you paid for my drink, but here is the money back. Now please go away and leave me alone." If he blusters and persists, do not speak to him at all, but go straight to the bar, and say LOUDLY to the barman "This man is harassing me, do you have security here?" These complete arseholes only respond to blatant rudeness, every polite response is a green light for them to go on pestering you.

bigboykitty · 30/03/2025 19:24

An experienced bar manager would have discreetly prompted him to leave as he was making a customer feel uncomfortable and if the man was an asshole about it, would have used security to make him leave.

Devonshiregal · 30/03/2025 18:39

RawBloomers · 29/03/2025 07:22

It absolutely is the bar manager’s responsibility to make sure customers aren’t harassed in the bar. As a licensed environment there is a duty on the staff to ensure customers don’t become a nuisance. If they develop a reputation for not reasonably helping women being being harassed on their premises they may find their licence does not get renewed.

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Erm what do you mean a nuisance? Because if every manager jumped in between any man talking to a woman in a pub, they’d have no returning customers pretty quickly. They have a duty to, as far as reasonably possible, protect anyone in their premises from violence and harassment - this would include calling the police, not necessarily flinging themselves in harms way. This man just talked to this woman, who, might I add, talked right back to him!! She didn’t like him but why on earth would a manager or staff member think to intervene. And if she said she found him creepy, what would they do? Go up to him and say ‘hey, just so you know, that woman who you just had a conversation with and have now stopped talking to, yeah..she doesn’t want to fuck you.” ….to what ends? They’d already stopped talking and he was weird but she’s admitted she didn’t actually do much to show she didn’t want to talk.

Topseyt123 · 30/03/2025 16:23

What an utter creep!

Sadly, there are far too many of them around and it's almost always men on women.

These types of men seem to feel entitled to do whatever the fuck they want, and apparently don't see that "no means no!" "No" is apparently some challenge thrown down for them to get round and so they persist.

It is predatory behaviour and I would definitely ask the hotel/bar manager for help. They do have the reputation of the establishment to consider and do understand that women make up a reasonable proportion of their client base.

This sort of shit does make me so angry.

Rainingalldayonmyhead · 30/03/2025 15:16

bigboykitty · 30/03/2025 15:14

Just let it drop, FFS.

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Sure I’ll drop it when people stop questioning me and responding. It works both ways. FFS.

bigboykitty · 30/03/2025 15:14

Rainingalldayonmyhead · 30/03/2025 15:00

Totally right. But she was drinking wine at the time and drinking and office working isn’t professional. Pretty strict rules at any office I know about not doing that.

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Just let it drop, FFS.

Rainingalldayonmyhead · 30/03/2025 15:00

TheGentleOpalMember · 30/03/2025 04:52

You said she wasn't working just because she was at a bar. That is irrational. There is nothing at all unprofessional with doing work on a laptop at a bar any more than there is doing work on a laptop at a cafe.

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Totally right. But she was drinking wine at the time and drinking and office working isn’t professional. Pretty strict rules at any office I know about not doing that.

Notsosure1 · 30/03/2025 06:45

Darkdiamond · 29/03/2025 11:00

I know. You're right. It does get rid of most of them but then there are a few who are on some kind of persistent, entitled manosphere and see you as some kind of right.

Really there's no way other than to actually aggressively say to them 'Go away and leave me alone!' And wait for the 'oh I was just trying to be nice' attempts at a guilt trip.

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I was with friends at a pub quiz and this younger man came over to answer our team questions (we had to swap) - it was clear he was interested in me and it made me really uncomfortable at how brazen he was - singling me out, staring at me, complimenting me etc. We said we were school mums in conversation and he later asked if we would go to another quiz he frequented with his friends on another day of the week. We reminded him we had kids etc so little spare time and he told us to bring them along! It was an evening quiz.

TheGentleOpalMember · 30/03/2025 04:52

Rainingalldayonmyhead · 29/03/2025 11:02

What are you on about? I said his behaviour wasn’t okay. I don’t think anyone drinking at a bar by themselves doing work on a laptop is very professional - no matter their gender - you went there I didn’t differentiate. Let’s not conflate the two. Why don’t you check your internalised misogyny - women also drink at bars and do business that way.

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You said she wasn't working just because she was at a bar. That is irrational. There is nothing at all unprofessional with doing work on a laptop at a bar any more than there is doing work on a laptop at a cafe.

MakkaPakkasCave · 29/03/2025 19:35

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Darkdiamond · 29/03/2025 16:33

MakkaPakkasCave · 29/03/2025 11:19

Were these men English?

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No, why?

slothandloaf · 29/03/2025 13:42

BadSkiingMum · 29/03/2025 06:29

What a persistent creep.

I am sorry to say it but I think it’s hotels. The idea that you are a lone woman and there are beds upstairs (that you might want to use with them!) sends some men doollally.

I sometimes travel for work and, as soon as I am walking solo into a hotel with a wheely case, I know that my ‘eyeing up’ rate and ‘approach’ rate goes right up.

But I think hotel staff are aware that it can be a problem. I once came downstairs to the hotel bar-restaurant and it was literally a sea of men sitting around in groups (a business-type hotel outside a small city). I seemed to be the only woman there that night! The bar man took my meal order and then suggested that I might like to sit at a table around the side of the bar, which I was happy to accept. But in some ways that situation felt safer as I think that men would peer-regulate each other in that situation.

This is an interesting observation & I think pretty accurate tbh & close to what other posters were saying about men assuming you’re there (in a hotel bar anyway) for a hook up to (which I took offence to initially). It reminds me of a time many moons ago when on a work trip (abroad admittedly) and using my free time in my hotel pool to have a swim & catch some sun. A older guy made a bee line for me & opened with “saw the water bottle - cabin crew right? Which airline?” I was a bit dumbfounded & cldnt believe that something as ubiquitous as a bottle of water could possibly be the universal code for cabin crew on their stopover & up for sex!! It was clear he thought I spoke the same code, & after complimenting me on my bikini & telling me he was a pilot seemed put out when I didn’t play along. It made me also question whether I’d given off without realising it some kind of signal that I was up for stopover sex when I was innocently trying to deconpress from my work trip (not in the same hotel as any of my work delegates I should hasten to add) & started questioning /berating myself for being in a bikini. So police & question my behaviour & victim blame myself for doing nothing unreasonable. So I do think hotel bars in particular may be as you say where men get even more predatory/prepared to harass/play away/pull especially in countries foreign to those men too.

For the OP though his insistence that it’s his local too & his act of dominance of paying her bill would be enough to make me never step a foot in there again for fear of him interpreting it as some kind of unspoken acceptance of his advances. Horrible territorial & uncomfortable behaviour coupled with the touching sounds like he’s read the Andrew Tate manual on how to pull & probably walked out with a massive boost to his ego for being an alpha. Yuk.

NPET · 29/03/2025 12:05

Don't apologise!
I just hate this. I'm 21, blonde, "traditionally" attractive with, I'm told, a "gooorgeous" smile, and I can't sit alone ANYWHERE without being interrupted every few minutes!
And they all think they're original and have a chance with me, even the creepy elderly ugly ones!
(Sorry if i sound pretentious a h, but I'm sure many of you know what I mean.)

theunbreakablecleopatrajones · 29/03/2025 11:55

Ruby1985 · 29/03/2025 11:06

Some of them love the ‘challenge’! And even that doesn’t work and makes them more eager

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Also this

Try polite but icy once, and if that doesn’t work go straight to cartoon fury - a full on stand up and fuck off you pervert before I call the staff and the police - delivered close to his face, and if that doesn’t work (it almost always will) then scream loudly and push him away, which will get him thrown out.

I am not a sociopath or even generally rude, but I have spend years travelling alone - all over the world, mostly for work - and this is what works.

(I have also had some great nights with random men I’ve met in bars, for clarity, so I’m not the fun police)

MarmaladeBagel · 29/03/2025 11:53

This happened to me in a gay bar of all places. The bloke actually said "you're not being very nice to me" when I turned my back on him towards my friends. I was actually polite but gave very short one word awnsers then turned around. Nowhere is safe from these people.

theunbreakablecleopatrajones · 29/03/2025 11:49

sciaticafanatica · 28/03/2025 19:14

Honestly don’t take this the wrong way but I think he thought you were “ working”

I really don’t think so, with a laptop, you see a million people in hotel bars doing that - I’m sure the odd one is ‘working’ but the odds aren’t good.

Anyway, you are right to feel angry and invaded OP. Channel it by deciding what you will do to get shot quicker next time - not that’s it’s your responsibility but needs must - next time ask him to move immediately and go straight to the staff if he doesn’t.

I would also write to the manager, saying that you are a regular and describing him and the harassment you experienced, and suggesting that if he is a regular the bar staff be aware of this. I don’t think this will achieve anything other than making you feel better, but that is a win.