Husband changing mind about DD left at home

I was a helper in a riding school and the whole yard was effectively run by 9 to 15 year old girls in terms of daily tasks after school and at weekends!

It was a remarkably efficient organization as well although rigorously hierarchical - only senior helpers could do the feeding and it was one of the greatest achievements of my childhood when I reached those dizzying heights.

And the weather was often rubbish and we didn't dissolve.

They don't let 9 year olds as helpers any more but most riding schools are still a great example of 12 to 16 years being able to take on significant responsibilities and independence when allowed!

I just googled civil twilight hours in Devon (as a place a long way away from northern Scotland). This year, in December it lasts until at least 16:48. A child finishing school at 3.15 with a 2 mile walk home will be back a long time before then.
(yes, I accept that there will be some days with lots of grey cloud where it will darker earlier but children walking home in the dark after school is really not an issue in most of the UK)

Bus?

The walk in and of itself is one issue, but the locking up and leaving alone at 11 is another.

I honestly think for a lot of mumsnetters they just don't really believe that car free families exist

Seriously... how do people think children whose parents don't drive get to school? Teleportation?

I have 2 kids at secondary school, and only know one who does this. She is in year 10 now, and it has only been for the last year. I used to work in attendance at our local high school, and the kids whose parents didn't know if they'd left for school or not because they'd already left were in the minority.

As for an earlier point, we are the absolute opposite end of the country to Scotland, and by the time my kids finish school at 315 it is well on the way to twilight/darkness in the middle of winter. It certainly would be by the end of a 2 mile walk.

An important point is what kind of walk is it? Are there decent pavements, crossings etc etc. A 2 mile walk including a country lane with no pavements is very different to a busy city centre...I'm assuming it can't be the latter if no buses?

Essentially though, there is no reason why your viewpoint is more valid than his OP, so an open discussion seems the most sensible.

Some people on here are so detached from reality.My kids have had to stay on their own after school, and get themselves ready and lock up in the morning all the way through high school as i worked 13 hour shifts. There was no other option as childcare past primary school does not exist. Mine are now 16-22 and are pretty self sufficient. They do their own laundry, cook full meals, help in house work, all have jobs, and understand the importance of working. This is by no means rare, this is how a lot of teens get through secondry school, because we no longer live in times were having a SAHP or a part time working parent is viable. I was single, yes, however this isnt unique to single parents, most 2 parent families require both parents to be working full time, and secondry school age children have to learn that independence.

OP a 45 minute walk is fine, with mine, in very poor weather, or if they had after school events that went until it was dark, id pay for a taxi/uber if i was unable to collect due to my working hours, but that was very rare.

I think on the whole walking a couple of miles each day is probably good for kids and makes sure they are doing some daily exercise.
I also think it’s very normal in some locations if not in others. We live in a moderate sized town that has spread and merged with the next couple of towns around it. It’s very typical here for kids to walk to/from school unaccompanied from Y5 onwards. My Y4 daughter complains endlessly she can’t also walk alone and is very excited to get to next year and be allowed.
Everyone has a different comfort zone about growing kids independence and every kid is different in terms of maturity, common sense etc so it’s really ok they go at different rates.
You don’t want them in situations where they will feel panicked and abandoned when they are little and you also don’t want them to get to 17/18 with not a scooby how to sort themselves out to get to places, make a meal, wash their clothes etc.
We are way stricter about tech access than most of the kids friends as that’s actually a bigger concern to me for their wellbeing than getting to/from school and clubs independently or being home alone for an hour or so. We all have things we worry about

One of the things I really notice on Mumsnet is how car dependent so many people are. Loads of posters would never consider walking anywhere because oh it might rain, which is why I suspect they project this stuff onto their kids as well. It's really no surprise we have such an obesity issue as a country

I think it’s really individual
at 11 I had sole responsibility for a pony, stuff like when to book the farrier, when to worm etc and my parents had no horse knowledge at all
I would finish school, catch a bus to the stables, ride, muck out, do everything then parents would collect me
(not rich before someone brings that up)

They just carry them around between lessons here along with bags. There are no lockers.

Either massive puffa jackets in the height of summer or lightweight unzipped jackets in the depths of winter as far as I can tell. Teenagers are weird.

Teenagers need to walk in bad weather in order to learn that sometimes style isn't everything 😉

Also baffled by the people who seem to say that their child might be bored or lonely walking for 40minutes. That's no reason to give up work and drive them. They can listen to endless music or podcasts so need to be bored.

And besides life is sometimes boring and you have to do boring things alone - it's something they need to learn.

We had worked up, similar to you, with dd getting herself home and looking after herself at age 10.75 Which was lucky as, when she was 11.25, there was a bullying issue in the school afterschool that school did not manage properly (the instigator being a child of the person running the club) so dd had to leave. She accepted going to another afterschool 2 days/week but as they collected straight at end of class time, she had to drop 2 afterschool activity clubs (sports). She still went to 1 because we already had a carpool arrangement between 3 parents to manage that as it was held in a different school for a pitch. And I got thick with the principal and told her dd was coming home 2 afternoons a week (after her other sport and religious instruction). She wasn’t going to miss out on everything just because she wasn’t doing her job and I as the parent was taking responsibility. She already had a phone in line with school policy (P5/P6 equivalents allowed to have phones but annual form to principal and phones left on teachers desk all day, only for getting to/from school). So dd went from having 15 minutes alone to 2 hours alone.

she was already comfortable letting herself in and doing some cooking anyway. She knew I was happy for her to use the kettle, grill or oven, but not the hob as that’s gas (others electric). She had to ring me when she got home, from the house phone (so I knew she was home). She knew the 3 people who were always home on the street to go to if there were any problems - and who had spare keys to our house. And she did go to one the day she forgot her key. And she knew snack and homework came first before relaxing (tv, Nintendo etc). And she was very good about that as she really didn’t want to lose her clubs or have to do 4 days in the new afterschool. For P6 equivalent, started at 11.75, she still did the carpool for hockey, but went back to 4 activities in school a week and took herself home every afternoon at either 3:30, 3:45 or 4.30 (depending on the activity) and I would get in at about 6.

she loved the freedom. She taught her classmates in 1st year how to use the bus to get to the our version of Westfield on a Friday when school finished early. She was not afraid to ring if anything concerned her, but she also figured out how to solve problems and occasionally even (if asked) draped clothes haphazardly over the aired to dry (it got them started…) or tidied her dishes.

you work up in stages, but part of your responsibility as a parent is to teach your child how to make their own way in the world and fly the nest successfully in due course.

dd is currently studying in a European city, regularly hops on a train to me in a different capital or a plane to her dad back home ( on temporary 4 year post). In fact, this week she came to me with 1 big bag of gear, to collect her racing bike and flew home from my city. I flew later in the week and carried her gear. She’s gone to Scotland today to participate in a team cycling event on the national senior team. And she’s back on Sunday to train with the national U21s for hockey, before going back to her city on the red eye Monday morning with her hockey gear - to go to College all day and to hockey training until 11pm. So I am ALL FOR giving independence and teaching DCs how to be comfortable looking after themselves.

This thread is MN batshittery at its finest. A couple of weeks ago I left 13 and 10 year old alone to get themselves ready for school as both DH and I had work things we simply couldn't change. We left just after 7. The DC were fine.

The screeching about the child being left alone. The two miles. I mean, I wouldn't WANT to walk 2 miles to school every day, but it's not a crisis. And she might find herself riding her bike instead.

And as I live opposite a high school, I feel confident that she'll be mostly walking with buddies a lot of the time. I never see children alone.

DD and I are off in a few weeks to look at what is likely to be either her first or second choice high school. She will have to either catch 2 busses to get there or a bus from our house into town and then about a mile walk from there which is the option I suspect she'll take if she goes to that school. It hasn't even occurred to me that it's an issue except that she'll be having to leave home much earlier than her brother who is at the school across the road and I KNOW that's going to annoy her!

Well, DHs parents made all three of their boys do it, and neither me nor my sisters in law have ever felt the need to complain that we do everything with regards the running of the household.

Read the many threads on here from women run ragged doing everything and the responses from many other women saying the same and that their DHs mum did everything for the family without expecting them to join in. And the posters piling on that kids should be taught from a young age to pitch in.

Can't have it both ways. Either they're involved in the household or they're allowed to opt out cos it's boring for them and easier for parents.

Am super confused by the concern about a 2 mile walk for distance reasons. Obviously not all two miles are the same so if it was a super busy / dark / dangerous route than I suppose the parents would make some sort of accommodation but if it's a normal walk then that's totally appropriate for a high school child to manage.

(I suppose if I was worried about it, and I drove to work, I'd look at dropping my child at someone's house closer to the school and they could walk in together, but a 15 minute walk on your own seems super manageable!)

We live in Scotland and my kids have walked just over a mile to school pretty much every day since P1. My daughter started walking with friends in P6 (so around 10) and my son is actually about to start walking home with a friend now in P4 as I seem to always let my younger child do things 2 years before my older child. His friend is a year older and they're sensible kids with phone watches to call us, they know loads of people along the way and they've both walked this every day for years now. My kids are super fit and can run circles around me so can walk to school in about 15 minutes.

Staying alone... my daughter is 12 but has anxiety so it's been a long road to get her to feel comfortable home alone. We are inching up to leaving her for a little bit when we take her brother to clubs or pop out for milk etc but she won't be left if it's dark out (and again - in Scotland so it's often dark out!) but I think this is a problem and we are actively working on it. If she was happy to be left I'd see no issue leaving her in these scenarios, I just wouldn't want her on screens on her own too much so would likely be giving her chores to do or expecting her to practice flute or ballet etc.

This update makes a huge difference. I think a lot of us imagined your DD walking 2 miles on her own. Walking with friends is so much better! She's obviously safer, and the time will pass quickly. I'd there's the odd day she has to walk completely on her own it sounds like there's probably other kids around anyway.

I don’t think anyone is romanticising it, just saying it’s perfectly normal and not something to get worked up about.

Agreed. I had a bloody hellish walk and bus journey to secondary. Hated every moment of it, then home to an empty house for hours. Zero fun. Lonely.

My dd has her birthday very end of August, so was younger than your daughter is now when the council deemed her old enough at the beginning of year 7 to walk 2 miles to school (bus only provided if over that distance) and old enough to be home alone at the end of the day (as no childcare I know of will cover that - a childminder might but it's not usual). I think your approach is perfectly acceptable, as your child is comfortable with it and you are happy she is sensible.

I think your Dh has gone about this in a really dickish way OP.

If he's having a wobble, or something has happened to make him anxious then he should have had a conversation with you and said I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable about leaving dd.

Suddenly changing his mind about leaving her and having a go at you is ridiculous, childish behaviour.

I think an 11 year old being left alone so much plus the long walk too and from school is shit parenting, I’m entitled to my view. So I think you are wrong.
I walked 6 miles a day to and from school as a teenager, I can say the romanticised view many posters have of this kind of walk
everyday is utter rubbish, it’s boring, relentless, cold, and I would often have wet shoes and clothes all day if it had been raining.

My own opinion is eleven is too young to be left alone for 1.5hrs. My year 7 secondary school child is so different to his year 6 primary school self. I’m happy for him to spend short periods of time alone but 1.5 hours really would be a max

I'm more concerned with the 30-45 minutes where she's walking alone in all weathers and the dark.
She'll be 11 years old and imho, very vulnerable during that time.
Bad decisions could be made if someone stops to offer her a lift.

@ByPearlSnail

but she already is being a parent. So I guess you’re wrong