‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ in schools is everyday sexism

When I was at school we addressed them by Mr/Ms/Mrs and their surname my kids school does too.

We are in the US and sir/ma’am is standard in our area, not just in schools but with children addressing adults in general.
I’m British, so it was a little jarring at first. But generally where I live, if it’s a teacher at school then it’s sir/ma’am, or if it’s another adult and the child either doesn’t know their name or doesn’t have an established relationship.
If the child knows the adult’s first name and there’s an established relationship there, it’s usually Miss or Mr First Name.
We have friends who are from the south, and I remember being really taken aback when we were out with them and their DC’s one day and their DS did something that warranted a telling off from his dad. Dad asked “Are we clear?” and the boy simply responded “Yeah”……dad’s eyebrows went up and he said “Excuse me?”, boy corrected himself and responded “Yes sir.”
It’s a lot more common here than I’ve ever heard in the U.K.!

Of course they are but you’ll never get MN to agree on that.

At my school we never used them, just the teachers’ normal titles - Mr, Mrs, Dr etc. Same at DD’s schools now. All private, don’t know if that makes a difference.

Personally, I've never cared enough to be bothered by it - children could call me Mrs 'Shetlands' or Miss.

Not to mention 'teacher' and having your arm tapped (by adults and children). 👀

When I was at school in the 80s we addressed our teachers by their name. Ie Mr Smith, Mrs kitchen, miss Brown..

Perhaps they're afraid that Baroness Brady might mishear, and think they're calling her "a Karen".

(Sorry, I couldn't resist it!)

@TheCountofMountingCrispBags I recall that advert. Clarke's Shoes. With her little brother Peter.

Incidentally, when I talk to people in general, I often don't use their names at all, except perhaps at the beginning or end of a conversation. Is this rude? Calling somebody by their name every sentence sounds like something salesmen sales people do, especially with title + surname. I am reminded of the Narnia book "The Silver Chair", when Jill keeps addressing Aslan as "sir", because it sounds cheek to call him nothing.

I’d rather be called ‘Miss’ than Ma’am or Madam.

Going back to even earlier sexism, it's notable how in school stories from the 50s or earlier, such as the Chalet School or Mallory Towers, almost none of the female teachers are "Mrs", because they didn't usually work after they were married.

I hate it, at my school we had enough wits to know the teachers names, and address them as Mr whatever, or Mrs or Miss whatever.

I wouldn’t have addressed them as Sir or Miss ( sexist )

But I did watch a film years ago, where a character had complained to another about addressing a teacher as Sir, as they were sons of gentlemen, and therefore the teacher was not their better.

It just stuck with me. 🤣😀

I would've hated being called Madam when I was teaching.

It sounds so formal and like a title for old ladies.

Not sure my inner city kids, who often referred to me as 'fam' would've been too keen either.

@Snorlaxo - exactly. And over time, many words synonymous with females have been used like this, whereas the male equivalent has a much more highbrow meaning.

Absolutely everyday sexism to use Miss when we think about today’s environment.

And as for "madam", isn't it sometimes an insult, as in calling someone "a madam"?

Madam makes me think of brothels

I’ve thought this for years, even at school! I think it followed an A’level English language lesson that focussed on connotation/male positives/female negatives, e.g. sir = respectful, madam = brothel owner, Master’s degree = educated, mistress = bit in the side etc.

Miss is just silly - it should at least be Ms or Mx! It seems very ‘little girl’, whereas Sir in the real sense of the word denotes elitism/power.

@softlyfallsthesnow Any pupil calling me 'Miss' would be addressed as 'Child'. They quickly learn.
That's so brilliant!

At brothers' school (private day and boarding in Australia in the 90s), female teachers were very much a rarity, the standard address was "Sir". When they got a female form teacher they were flummoxed for about two minutes and then simply referred to her as Sir as well. I quite liked that as it took the gender differential out of the equation.

At all my schools we just called the teachers by their names - Mr Smith, Mrs Brown, whatever. I don't buy the argument that it's too difficult for kids to learn teachers' names.

Since my eldest started secondary I've noticed he'll routinely refer to male teachers as Sir (Sir said this. Sir said that) but female teachers will be Mrs X, Miss Y so he's clearly internalised some kind of idea about different levels of appropriateness in the titles.

In my secondary school, most teachers didn't bother with this ritual beyond year 8, except in assembly, for the entrance of the Head. However, there was one teacher who insisted on it for all year groups, right up to year 13, and the "good morning everybody" routine. She wasn't well-liked.

You just tell them to call you Mrs/ Ms/ Miss surname. It's not difficult. If you can address each of them by their name, they can return the favour since there's only one of you and loads of them.

Any pupil calling me 'Miss' would be addressed as 'Child'. They quickly learn.
'Miss' is cringeworthy rather than sexist.

I am in Ireland and my children address all teachers as ‘Teacher’.

In one of my children’s school they call teachers by their first name. At the start i thought it was a bit weird as not something i was used to - but actually it is no big deal at all.

@scalt Yes, I work at a university and there's always a few first years who say "Thanks, miss," as a reflex 😄

I have to encourage them to use my first name.

I think is the same everywhere.

It is Mr X and Miss Y but people just say miss and sir for short.

Even staff members call each other miss and Sir sometimes too.

I went to a girls' school (state) and some previous headteacher had banned "miss" and "sir".

We called the teachers by their full names, e.g. "Miss Smith".

Miss and sir sound really weird to me, but it's just not what I'm used to.

When I started at university, I asked what the protocol was for addressing members of staff. I was told that many academics are happy to be on first name terms, but if in doubt, to use their full name. The person I asked then added "But don't call anyone "sir" - it's embarrassing!"

My DH does tuition for GCSE and A-level, and says he finds it quite jarring when pupils call him "sir" all the time, and there are some who do it every sentence, especially from Asian cultures.

And as for "madam", isn't it sometimes an insult, as in calling someone "a madam"?

It’s as though your actively looking for a problem where there isn’t one