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Original poster

‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ in schools is everyday sexism

258 replies

putyourshoesonnow · 27/03/2025 14:16

To me the terms ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ are unequal because ‘Sir’ is a term of respect whilst ‘Miss’ has less gravitas as it has connotations of youth, juniority and marital status and can be seen as diminishing to adult women.

This has bugged me for a while, as I think it is exactly the wrong message that young people should be receiving in school.

A perfect alternative may not exist, but surely we can do better than this?

YABU - Sir and Miss are fine, no problem here
YANBU - Sir and Miss are too unequal and we should seek an alternative

OP posts:
OchonAgusOchonOh · 27/03/2025 15:56

Chunkilumptious · 27/03/2025 14:34

No, surgeons and unmarried women of any age or occupation use Miss as their title. It carries plenty of gravitas to me. I don't see why we have to mess about with women's titles and diminished them rather than let society reach parity.

We had some bloody formidable and talented teachers at school whom we called 'Miss'. Women teaching has a long and proud history. Why does such a well known title need to be interfered with? Miss and Sir are equals. Just because the title is a bit more versatile than Sir in terms of age, social standing and marital status (and isn't borne by a Knight), it doesn't take away the meaning it holds in this context. Leave Miss alone!

Not in my experience they don't (medics in the family and I encounter more through work). Any I've dealt with, or know, go by Ms. Although I recently encountered a Mrs. I'm in Ireland though and Miss is much less common here for anyone over the age of 18. The website on the local school has all the female teachers listed as Ms. Whatever Whatever, for example.

Iwannakeepondancing · 27/03/2025 15:48

Some people are offended by anything!

WorriedRelative · 27/03/2025 15:48

It comes from the days of only unmarried women teaching and I agree it is sexist. If schools don't want to use Mr/Ms Surname then Sir/Ma'am as in the police/fire service/armed forces etc would be more equal.

Cucy · 27/03/2025 15:44

RhaenysRocks · 27/03/2025 15:38

Taught for thirty years in both sectors UK. I get called Miss, Sir, Mum, Miss X, Mrs X, Really don't care so long as it's polite.

Absolutely this!! 🙌

OchonAgusOchonOh · 27/03/2025 15:43

LlynTegid · 27/03/2025 14:25

Not sure of the alternative, but it should not be calling teachers by their first names.

My dc attended a school where first names were used for the teachers. There were no more issues with respect than in any other school. If anything, there was more respect shown to the teachers than in other local schools.

In primary it started with Múinteoir (teacher) First Name but the múinteoir was generally dropped within a year or so unless they were addressing a teacher they didn't know, in which case they would just call them Múinteoir.

Personally, I think the whole Ms/Mr used in many schools is outdated. If you don't like first names, what about Teacher? It's the equivalent of addressing lecturers as Professor. I work in a university and most of my international students address me as Professor even though I don't have an academic rank of professor. Internationally that would be common. Local students generally use my first name.

BumbleBeegu · 27/03/2025 15:43

Well I am a ‘Miss’ so don’t see the issue here at all. I’d feel so uncomfortable being addressed as ‘Madam’ or ‘Ma’am’ 🤷‍♀️

Soregum · 27/03/2025 15:41

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Cucy · 27/03/2025 15:41

softlyfallsthesnow · 27/03/2025 15:06

You just tell them to call you Mrs/ Ms/ Miss surname. It's not difficult. If you can address each of them by their name, they can return the favour since there's only one of you and loads of them.

Any pupil calling me 'Miss' would be addressed as 'Child'. They quickly learn.
'Miss' is cringeworthy rather than sexist.

Obviously someone like you wouldn’t work in a school or prison and so you don’t have to worry about being called miss.

Soregum · 27/03/2025 15:41

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softlyfallsthesnow · 27/03/2025 15:40

@scalt it's true that most women teachers were unmarried before ww2 - same for the Civil Service I think . I've had many married colleagues who prefer to be Miss previous name at school, thus keeping their two identities separate (if they'd changed their surname, obv).

I don't think teachers were addressed as Miss at either school you mention. Darrel Rivers would have choked on her tinned peaches before calling Miss Grayling 'Miss'!

LilyOfTheValleySoon · 27/03/2025 15:40

tiredofthisusername · 27/03/2025 14:24

Oh don't be so silly.

Children don't think like that. They do not have the built-in adult connotation of 'Sir' being any more prestigious than 'Miss'. Why would they?

But they learn it through using those words every day - which is the issue!

YourBestFriend · 27/03/2025 15:39

Ddakji · 27/03/2025 15:37

Still not the same as “Sir”, though.

Show quote history

That may be your perception. For me both terms sit at exactly the same level of formality.

RhaenysRocks · 27/03/2025 15:38

Taught for thirty years in both sectors UK. I get called Miss, Sir, Mum, Miss X, Mrs X, Really don't care so long as it's polite.

Humpycamel · 27/03/2025 15:38

Snorlaxo · 27/03/2025 14:23

It is unequal but I’d like to hear what teachers think because they are the ones being called Sir or Miss.

I went to private school and we used Mr X /Miss Y/Ms Z

I'm a teacher and have no issue with being called "Miss".

Soregum · 27/03/2025 15:38

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CarpetKnees · 27/03/2025 15:38

YANBU, but I don't understand why staff are called anything other than their name {Mrs Smith, Dr Brown, Mr Jones, Miss Green, Ms White - or whatever they introduce themselves as.

Soregum · 27/03/2025 15:37

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Ddakji · 27/03/2025 15:37

YourBestFriend · 27/03/2025 15:35

That is why we have Ms.

Still not the same as “Sir”, though.

JaninaDuszejko · 27/03/2025 15:36

scalt · 27/03/2025 15:20

Going back to even earlier sexism, it's notable how in school stories from the 50s or earlier, such as the Chalet School or Mallory Towers, almost none of the female teachers are "Mrs", because they didn't usually work after they were married.

In a related historical context traditionally senior servants such as the cook and housekeeper were called 'Mrs X' as a mark of respect.

YourBestFriend · 27/03/2025 15:35

That is why we have Ms.

Jeschara · 27/03/2025 15:35

melisma · 27/03/2025 14:22

My son's (state) school asks the pupils to address the teachers by Sir and Ma'am.

Same at my now adults sons school.

RedHelenB · 27/03/2025 15:35

Yabu.

Original poster
putyourshoesonnow · 27/03/2025 15:34

Wow, interesting to hear the different perspectives!

I think ‘Ma’am’ is more equal to ‘Sir’ so I would see that as an improvement even though I don’t love it. It seems that it is in use in some schools already and is widely used by the police and armed forces, so not too much of a leap to expand its use in schools.

I also like Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms + Name, but I can see that in a large school some students would find this very difficult.

I agree with the majority that Madam would be a hard sell and has alternative negative connotations!

I’m also intrigued by the view that ‘Miss’ is respected in its own right as a professional title - I like that thought and see some truth in it, but I’m not convinced that this is enough to stand up to the gravitas of Sir.

OP posts:
PeachesPeachesPeachesPeachesPeaches · 27/03/2025 15:34

I just get called “teacher”. I don’t even work in a school 😂 but at a club I run.

At my DS primary and the attached secondary they call teachers by their first name and it works really well.

JaninaDuszejko · 27/03/2025 15:33

I find the Sir and Miss thing in English secondary schools very bizarre. DH (private school) and I (state school) both grew up in Scotland and always called our teacher Mr W, Dr X, Mrs Y or Miss Z. Not sure why English children can't do the same. My (English) kids disagree with me but the eldest is now at 6th form and calling her teachers by their first name which also bemuses me.