‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ in schools is everyday sexism

You're wrong about how children think. A teacher I got on well with commented that I always called him Mr X rather than sir (he had a long name, so it was a mouthful, and he was gently teasing me). My response was that I didn't ever call anyone Sir. I was 11. I understood the connotations of Sir, and I knew Miss didn't have the same connotations. Children understand far more than you give them credit for.

It's historically sexist, but in modern times it's fine. Miss and sir in my opinion carry the same weight in a school nowadays.

It never meant anything to me growing up, outside of being a neutral word for a female teacher. I've worked as a TA, and from my experience, kids say 'miss' regardless of marital status.

Madam personally sounds worse to me, as it has connotations of bossy etc 'oh she's a right madam'!

Agreed, in my setting this is the expected for all staff.

The nice thing about Sir/Miss is it's a polite way for pupils to refer to all adults in the setting, known or not: teachers, TAs, caretakers and cleaners, lunchtime supervisors and cooks, visitors and volunteers.

We have 2000 students and 87 teachers at our comp, plus we have staff leaving/joining etc. Even I don't know everyone's name and I've been there for years. Teachers tend to use Miss/Sir to refer to each other if we don't know the name and it's not an appropriate time to ask in front of the students.

@Cucy a sense of humour goes a long way in teaching. As does a mutual rapport.

It was Mr and Mrs/Miss Surname in primary - but secondary it was often same but Sir/Miss was sometime used.

I found it helpful as so many names could at start of year be confusing - possible related to my then undiagnosed dyslexia and memory issues. It was usually to attract attention for quick question when focus was on work rather than remember who was teaching.

I think it's similar in DC secondary - but at college it's first names which my teens did initally find jarring.

I image though teachers and schools affected can state their prefernces and gently remind students of them and could be quickly changed the habit and language used.

I'm a secondary teacher and it doesn't bother me at all. I remember when I had my son, I was just being moved back to the post-labour ward when I heard "Hi Miss!" from a midwife 😂As long as our attitude/demeanour is respectful to each other then I'm fine with any term of address at a school.

It's completely unequal. In my DS's (Comprehensive) school it's Sir and Ma'am which is better. However I think teachers should be called by their first names. That's what we did at school and there was no less respect for their authority - probably the opposite as there was generally a more respectful relationship between students, teachers and indeed parents (not in the UK obv).

I would have thought the children could learn names? How many staff are in an average comp?

I hadn't thought about it but I agree OP.

At my school we never used Sir or Miss.. it was always Mrs X, Miss X, Mr X etc.

More than one school near me uses Sir and Ma'am

Happier with that?

(Though you feel about ninety when you're ma'amed)

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

You are being precious.
Yes, you are right in that when it comes to meeting the Royalty you can't use Ms. However, do you realise how much of a stretch that scenario is ? Do you honestly believe that using the term Sr has more gravitas because that is what you would use with the King ? I am sorry but is sounds over the top.

There is. It's Mistress! Miss is just the shorter, modern version. Not disrespectful at all.

Oh I am so with you on this! It drives me up the wall. All the female teachers - who I seem to have to address as Ms Smith when I email them - are called Miss to their face at DS’s secondary school. Never Miss Smith. Why not? And yes I agree about status for men and women.

At my school we had to use the full name - Mrs or Ms Smith.

look up Deborah Cameron about this - she’s a retired professor who writes about feminism and language. She has a good blog.

I’ve been a teacher for the last 10 years and trust me being called Miss in the classroom is the least of the problems in education currently…

Yes, I hate being called, Madam in shops, I'm mid 40s still get Miss as well though.

It really doesn’t worry me.

I don’t think the kids think that, and my very feminist DD had no issue with it. My son works in retail and says he gets look when he addresses a woman as ‘ma’am’. I suggested he used Miss no matter what their age and he says they respond much better to that!

Yes, my DS's 6th form college it is first name terms but obviously they are older.

She didn’t say she was offended, she asked if it was sexism. Which it is.

Which is your perception, but also untrue - the equivalent for a man of Ms is Mr, not Sir. Madam/Ma’am is the equivalent.
Pretty sure no one goes around calling the Queen ‘’Ms” when they call the King “Sir”.

I've taught in schools where all adults are addressed by first name and schools where it's been title + last name. I don't mind either of those but dislike being called 'Miss'. I explain to the children I teach that I go to the trouble of learning their names and would like them to learn mine in return, if they forget my name then I'll happily help them out but calling me Miss is equivalent to me using Boy or Girl in place of their name.

We definitely used Miss & Sir in a Scottish (rural, Higlands) high school, late ‘80s/early ‘90s.