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Original poster

‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ in schools is everyday sexism

258 replies

putyourshoesonnow · 27/03/2025 14:16

To me the terms ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ are unequal because ‘Sir’ is a term of respect whilst ‘Miss’ has less gravitas as it has connotations of youth, juniority and marital status and can be seen as diminishing to adult women.

This has bugged me for a while, as I think it is exactly the wrong message that young people should be receiving in school.

A perfect alternative may not exist, but surely we can do better than this?

YABU - Sir and Miss are fine, no problem here
YANBU - Sir and Miss are too unequal and we should seek an alternative

OP posts:
Ddakji · 27/03/2025 18:30

RhaenysRocks · 27/03/2025 18:14

Our deputy head is a sir and is an effective twat who can't control the most docile class. I can silence the bottom set in Y11 with a raised eyebrow. The kids know what's what. I just asked my two teens if they think sir has more gravitas than miss or is taken more seriously...a resounding no.

Show quote history

Well, obviously - they’re children! Honestly, why do so many adults abdicate their critical thinking to kids?

Summerbay23 · 27/03/2025 18:29

DancingOctopus · 27/03/2025 14:18

I think pupils at some schools address women teachers as " Madam". I don't know if this is a regional thing.

Yes, this happens in our area.

MarchWindsAnd · 27/03/2025 18:28

When I was in primary school I moved from a school in a pit village to one in a more middle-class area about a hundred miles away.

I remember being told off at the second school for calling the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”, as I had been used to. I decided, age 9, that it was a class thing. This thread has illustrated that it’s not.

rosegoldwatcher · 27/03/2025 18:21

I worked in state comps and was never addressed as anything other than Miss - apart from the occasional 'Mum' and latterly 'Nan' from a very embarrassed pupil!

I would have loved someone to call me Madam!

dizzydizzydizzy · 27/03/2025 18:19

This has always bugged me too. My DCs' very good London comp used Sir and Miss.

ImthatBoleyngirl · 27/03/2025 18:17

Does anyone use the term Sir at school anymore? Mine and my kids school has been Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms. At DD's high, they use the teacher's first names!

RhaenysRocks · 27/03/2025 18:14

Silvertulips · 27/03/2025 17:37

To me the terms ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ are unequal because ‘Sir’ is a term of respect whilst ‘Miss’ has less gravitas as it has connotations of youth, juniority and marital status and can be seen as diminishing to adult women

The name doesn’t equal respect - Sir doesn’t command respect - how you approach children and expect respect makes the difference.

Some teachers only have to raise an eyebrow- others could rant all day and not have respect.

What’s prompted this crap?

Our deputy head is a sir and is an effective twat who can't control the most docile class. I can silence the bottom set in Y11 with a raised eyebrow. The kids know what's what. I just asked my two teens if they think sir has more gravitas than miss or is taken more seriously...a resounding no.

RhaenysRocks · 27/03/2025 18:10

SinkToTheBottomWithYou · 27/03/2025 16:31

Surly all pupils should know their teacher’s last names, so Mr X / Miss X / Mrs X. At least that is what they are at my DC’s school.

Of course they know it and use it on and off but if I'm just passing in the playground or they're asking for more paper or something, it's "Hi Miss" "Miss can I have some paper". If it's a more formal or complicated situation they might do "Miss X" but it's a mouthful. Genuinely, people thinking that kids are subconsciously absorbing micro aggression here are WAY overthinking.

twoshedsjackson · 27/03/2025 18:09

I preferred Miss TwoSheds, I was resigned to Miss.
Sometimes, when they were not thinking, I got Mum or Mummy, occasionally an incomprehensible foray into another language spoken at home.
But I did get miffed with the occasional Grandma.

Ddakji · 27/03/2025 18:03

mismomary · 27/03/2025 17:55

For children that have grown up calling teachers Sir and Miss there is no difference. You perceive a status difference, they do not.

Just because children don’t perceive something doesn’t make that thing right. I don’t expect children to do the hard thinking around this but it’s a shame so many adults either can’t or won’t.

Ddakji · 27/03/2025 18:02

CaptainMyCaptain · 27/03/2025 17:30

I don't see it as lesser so why should they. I was always given to understand that Miss is short for Mistress and to be Mistress of ..(ie a job not a relationship to a man) was a respectable title.

Show quote history

Mistress (which is centuries old) became Mrs. Miss is the diminutive used for a juvenile girl or unmarried woman.

Ms was invented in the 1970s to address the inequality between all adult men being Mr but women being split between Miss and Mrs, and looking at other languages which moved all adult women into, for example, Madame or Senora regardless of marital status.

SirDanielBrackley · 27/03/2025 18:00

Unreasonable, no. Ridiculous, yes,

mismomary · 27/03/2025 17:55

For children that have grown up calling teachers Sir and Miss there is no difference. You perceive a status difference, they do not.

Trebormints74 · 27/03/2025 17:46

tiredofthisusername · 27/03/2025 14:24

Oh don't be so silly.

Children don't think like that. They do not have the built-in adult connotation of 'Sir' being any more prestigious than 'Miss'. Why would they?

Maybe but in the corridor staff address each other as Miss and Sir. I’m a teacher (female) and hate calling the men Sir . It’s degrading being called Miss !

BebbanburgIsMine · 27/03/2025 17:41

I’m Scottish and we just called our teachers by their named, e.g Mrs/Miss Smith or Mr Smith.

Saying Sir or Miss sounds odd to me.

Silvertulips · 27/03/2025 17:37

To me the terms ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ are unequal because ‘Sir’ is a term of respect whilst ‘Miss’ has less gravitas as it has connotations of youth, juniority and marital status and can be seen as diminishing to adult women

The name doesn’t equal respect - Sir doesn’t command respect - how you approach children and expect respect makes the difference.

Some teachers only have to raise an eyebrow- others could rant all day and not have respect.

What’s prompted this crap?

CaptainMyCaptain · 27/03/2025 17:30

Ddakji · 27/03/2025 17:22

All that tell us is how insidious this kind of everyday sexism is. Children learn from a very young age that women are lesser. They learn that inequality between the sexes is the norm. They don’t even realise it’s happening.

I find it slightly astonishing that so many women teachers don’t have a problem with this when it’s all part and parcel of teaching not being as respected a profession as it should be. No one calls a lawyer or a doctor or an architect “miss”. But if women within a profession don’t seem to care, what can anyone else do?

Show quote history

I don't see it as lesser so why should they. I was always given to understand that Miss is short for Mistress and to be Mistress of ..(ie a job not a relationship to a man) was a respectable title.

SideEyeSally · 27/03/2025 17:27

My now retired teacher mother used to hate being called 'Miss' and would tell the offender 'I haven't put up with my husband for 40 years to be called Miss, Mrs X please'

Ddakji · 27/03/2025 17:22

CaptainMyCaptain · 27/03/2025 17:15

Quite.

This question keeps popping up on Mumsnet. Sir snd Miss are fine, the children don't even think about it.

Show quote history

All that tell us is how insidious this kind of everyday sexism is. Children learn from a very young age that women are lesser. They learn that inequality between the sexes is the norm. They don’t even realise it’s happening.

I find it slightly astonishing that so many women teachers don’t have a problem with this when it’s all part and parcel of teaching not being as respected a profession as it should be. No one calls a lawyer or a doctor or an architect “miss”. But if women within a profession don’t seem to care, what can anyone else do?

TabloidFootprints · 27/03/2025 17:21

Snorlaxo · 27/03/2025 14:23

It is unequal but I’d like to hear what teachers think because they are the ones being called Sir or Miss.

I went to private school and we used Mr X /Miss Y/Ms Z

I went to a grammar school and we also called teachers Mr, Mrs or Miss Surname so I do find the Sir and Miss thing pretty weird.

EmeraldShamrock000 · 27/03/2025 17:16

It is Mr X or Ms X. No Sir.

CaptainMyCaptain · 27/03/2025 17:15

tiredofthisusername · 27/03/2025 14:24

Oh don't be so silly.

Children don't think like that. They do not have the built-in adult connotation of 'Sir' being any more prestigious than 'Miss'. Why would they?

Quite.

This question keeps popping up on Mumsnet. Sir snd Miss are fine, the children don't even think about it.

mumofoneAlonebutokay · 27/03/2025 17:12

I agree with the origins of the word, but miss is used respectfully by the kids as much as sir, it would just be a faff to change it all x

TheJollyMoose · 27/03/2025 17:11

Is it fuck. Stop finding things to be offended about.

Middleagedstriker · 27/03/2025 17:10

tiredofthisusername · 27/03/2025 14:24

Oh don't be so silly.

Children don't think like that. They do not have the built-in adult connotation of 'Sir' being any more prestigious than 'Miss'. Why would they?

Children are very clever and absorb everything. They know Sir has more gravitas by teenage years.

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