Massive overreaction to a TV show

It is very frustrating (thank you for understanding).

Indeed, most kids see him as a grifter and a joke. He’s the latest media Bogeyman corrupting teens.

Used to be Elvis, then Jagger, then Lydon, then gangsta rap. Now drill.

man-haters? Really? You’re going to boil down real and significant issues in today’s society to people hating men? 😂 wow.

I look forward to the threads on here from your future daughters in law in a few years time.

OP you are being exceptionally naive. You have teenagers that live in 2025 and have access presumably to the internet and perhaps social media. Algorithms are poisonous and exceptionally insidious.

The point isn’t just about misogyny and knife crime. It’s also an opportunity to speak to all of our children about the dangers of dangerous rhetoric online. Whether that’s about misogyny, terrorism, racism, conspiracy theories etc.

the whole point is that’s it’s an opportunity for you to have an extremely important conversation with your kids about being safe online, taking everything you hear from others with a pinch of salt and critical thinking skills.

totally lost on you.

I do agree with that point, and think it's great when art stimulates discussion - but bringing it up in the house of commons feels a bit ... odd.

Surely the point is, whether you feel it’s relevant to you specifically or not, the program highlights what is becoming a very worrying trend amongst, particularly, adolescent/ young men, I would rarely agree with Gareth Southgate, but he was so right in his comments about young men and role models

I think this is a bit unfair. There is a long history of fiction being used to draw attention to, and even drive action on, real societal issues, including in TV (e.g. Cathy Come Home). The story is made up, of course, but the issue isn't. Similarly, We Need to Talk About Kevin was very clearly drawing on - and trying to bring some nuance to discussions of - the very real issue of school shootings by teens in the US.

This.

dont be so damn ignorant.

But the government commenting on it is weird - it's like the government responding to Independence Day. Guys it's made up.

Are you suggesting incel culture, toxic masculinity and misogyny are made up?

Ok. I watched a really good show about an old school comedienne and her Gen z side kick in Vegas. Didn’t really have much to do with my life or my children’s…

I don’t have sons, only daughters, so acknowledge I cannot fully understand your frustration, but I do have two absolutely wonderful nephews who I’m sure will grow up to be like your sons hopefully. But for every story like the one you read yesterday, they are lost among the ones of far less heroic men. It’s not being negative to point this out. It’s true.

Whenever you hear children talk about Andrew Tate, they don't think much about him, but the media are obsessed over him.

I find it suspicious that he flew back to Romania at the weekend, and there was trouble at Heathrow. Perhaps he was also in Ukraine in January 2022?

He's a convenient villain, he's also a grifter and a nasty person, but all the publicity just heightens his brand.

It really comes down to the same moral panic society has had for years, of normal people being seduced by the devil. The actual devil in biblical times, to rock music, video nasties, computer games and now to Andrew Tate videos. Much easier to blame that than society.

The kid murders someone and the implication is that it was because his parents didn’t monitor his social media or check on him much. The murder story gets people’s attention but makes it completely unrealistic. It also makes people think it isn’t their problem because their son isn’t about to stab someone.

No, that was one part of the issue. I also highlighted the family dynamic, which wasn't the loving home some people are suggesting.
Clearly it's a multifaceted issue but if it manages to highlight some of these issues and get people talking then that's a good thing.

Puts the fear into middle England and creates a narrative of ‘it could happen to anyone’.

Also deflects from really important issues and political choices affecting young people, that should be debated. As you say, overstretched and failing public services, including almost total collapse of youth services since 2010. Plus, parents having to work long hours just to afford basics, growing child poverty, record family homelessness, impact of the pandemic, racism etc.

YANBU in some ways: it reminds me of the reception to "We've got to talk about Kevin" - people were saying "Oooh was a tragedy!" and "That poor mother!" - forgetting it was fiction.

It's great art I suppose - extremely well acted and directed. That camera work is incredible! And it's a great reflection of current society and issues with social media. So that makes us suspend our disbelief.

But the government commenting on it is weird - it's like the government responding to Independence Day. Guys it's made up.

Thank goodness for this thread, couldn't agree more OP. Tired of reading about it, tired of all the usual man-haters using it as an excuse to post about how all boys and men are awful. Such a lot of divisive and unhealthy discussion about this series and Andrew Tate (a person that my sons and all their male friends assure me they know is a complete idiot).

There was a story in the news yesterday about a young man who had lost his life whilst saving 3 women. I felt very sad when I read it to think of all the negative discussion towards men that this series is causing and the posts I have seen from mums feeling 'terrified' of raising boys after watching this series.

That's so sad to read. Your poor DD.

I agree with this, but would also note that the majority of those men also won't have been raised on smartphones and Andrew Tate. There's been no shift, either way, on the rate of women killed by men since 2009, and that figure is considerably down on previous decades, though clearly still far too high. Pinning the blame on what the kids are watching on Youtube is, I think, only part of the point: this is the most recent manifestation of a deep-rooted societal misogyny, not something wholly new.

Well who would have guessed the baby faced adolescent would have stabbed a girl to death?
I was absolutely hoping the police had got the wrong kid. Average kid doing averagely at school, average home life etc
Unfortunately children are being influenced in ways that were impossible a few years ago and children are stabbing children.
Incels? Never heard of that until a few years ago but many males feel validated by their (unacceptable) views.
I hope it’s a wake up call for parents to protect their kids from internet shite.

They did. And teens climbed out of their bedroom windows (or said they were staying at a friend’s) to go to parties and raves, have underage sex, and partake of drugs and alcohol. Even at private schools.

Teen pregnancy was a huge issue in the 1970s. Violence was everywhere: in the home, from teachers, football crowds, gigs etc. In 1950s London, knife crime (e.g. Teddy boys with flick knives) caused tons of debate.

I’m so impressed with young people these days. They’re much more socially aware and respectful of others than when I was young. They can speak much more openly about issues like mental health, sexual health, grooming. Schools have done a great job. The internet is of far more benefit than harm.

I’m not saying there aren’t still challenges and risks. And it’s good to discuss them. But there always are.

The kid murders someone and the implication is that it was because his parents didn’t monitor his social media or check on him much. The murder story gets people’s attention but makes it completely unrealistic. It also makes people think it isn’t their problem because their son isn’t about to stab someone.

There is certainly plenty of out of control kids, misogyny and homophobia in schools though.

And the family portrayed did have issues. The dad had anger issues and had very specific ideas around masculinity which he tried to force onto his son. The women in the family spent a lot of time regulating the dad's emotions.

These are common themes with many male murderers and then said men often blame the women for not doing enough even when they watched their mothers and sisters being physically abused. Doesn’t matter the class either.

This is a very good point.

OP, even if you assume in your rarefied part of this world that this isn’t an issue, I can assure you that it is in the country at large. Please speak to your children about this issue and do not brush it off. This is a problem for all of us in modern society unfortunately.

That’s exactly what I thought - the whole point of the show was to get parents to take their heads out of their arses.

I enjoyed watching it and thought the acting was good but the story was unrealistic. Kids murder other kids when they have very complicated and deprived family backgrounds, there are warning signs and red flags for years and there is always a context of failed public services who fail to work together to help the family, chronic issues remaining unresolved and much warning behaviour from the child. It is never a shock in hindsight and the same story comes out afterwards about a lack of action by services and a failure of services to work together.

This story about a very nice lad who gets corrupted online is what the public perhaps want to hear and its more palatable, simple and easier to hear than the truth.