Page 3 | NEIGHBOUR CROSSED THE BOUNDARY BEFORE EXCHANGE

MummyToBeAgain1 · 2025-03-26T09:29:39+00:00

Hi I need some advice please. We're buying a semi detached property and due to exchange and complete in a week or 2. Over the weekend we drove past the property to find a fence being built between our garden and the property on the right. I suspected they had come in to our garden at a glance so drove past again yesterday. The fence had fully been up and clearly it crossed in to our garden (to be). I've attached a quick drawing which shows what I mean. The red line is the fence the neighbour has put up. Just for some context this is a auction property as the owner has died and the children wanted a quick sale. This means that we have a deadline for completition which makes things more stressful. What do we do now? Tia

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/05/2025 10:05

The change was only made a few weeks ago - after the auction date - there was no dispute prior and things were how they should have been

That makes sense, @MummyToBeAgain1, but there'll be one now unless you simply ignore the whole thing and let tthe CF neighbour carry on with what's yours

It's good that "Nothing related has been written in the sales contract" though, in that there's nothing to stop you simply taking back the land and hoping the CF - knowing perfectly well what they did - doesn't make an issue of it

OP you need a different solicitor

Edited to add or even a solicitor at all perhaps, since OP's not said if whoever's doing the work is an actual solicitor or one of these "conveyancers"

TheHerboriste · 08/05/2025 09:57

I don’t understand giving up any property to thieves.

OP you need a different solicitor.

AlwaysCoffee25 · 08/05/2025 09:53

Netaporter · 08/05/2025 09:48

No, she isn’t. The solution is that the land transfers with the boundaries as they were before the land grab took place and then she has agreed to change that boundary once she is the owner. I am just pointing out to her the process by which the land registry manages that change.

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Sorry I misunderstood.

Do you have a lender OP? As that absolutely wouldn’t be acceptable to them.

Netaporter · 08/05/2025 09:48

AlwaysCoffee25 · 08/05/2025 09:39

What are you talking about Op is going to take a transfer of part of the title.

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No, she isn’t. The solution is that the land transfers with the boundaries as they were before the land grab took place and then she has agreed to change that boundary once she is the owner. I am just pointing out to her the process by which the land registry manages that change.

Cantthinkofagoodnametoday · 08/05/2025 09:43

OP I appreciate you’re content with your resolution but I suspect this is more due to the relief of getting the issue sorted in time to meet your deadline, rather than actually being happy with the result.

I hope that in a few months when you’ve settled in and the stress has lessened, you’ll find your anger and refer back to the many very helpful posts on here. Your neighbours are thieves, it’s really that simple.

AlwaysCoffee25 · 08/05/2025 09:39

Netaporter · 08/05/2025 08:00

@MummyToBeAgain1 i appreciate you are happy with your resolution and desperately want the house but I would be very cautious about the onus being on you of re-registering the boundary post purchase. As you know, the red line on the plan registered at the LR is only valid to within +/- 0.5m. When any party attempts to change the boundary line a notification is served by the LR on both parties so that both parties agree it before it is changed. It is not a process only the owner of your house has control of. If this is not sorted before you become the owner you are vulnerable to the neighbours (who have not behaved honourably up to this point) not agreeing the new line - maybe claiming more land is theirs or worse. I’m not wholly certain from your recent posts that the process of ‘simply’ re-registering the land has been made very clear to you. Please check that your solicitor has made provision to protect your interests in the event of this possibility. You do not need to buy a house which has a boundary dispute - your neighbours will dictate if you can ever sell it.

What are you talking about Op is going to take a transfer of part of the title.

AlwaysCoffee25 · 08/05/2025 09:38

I’m glad you’ve come to a resolution you’re happy with OP.

As someone said above - you’ll just have a transfer of part of your title. The remaining part will stay with the vendors and eventually the NDN can do an application for adverse possession if they want to - or the title will stay messy for a long time - it’s not unheard of and won’t affect you practically, it might cause issues for the NDN when/if they come to sell though - they’ll have this whole scenario again. Plus at that stage simply returning it won’t be an option as the slither of land will belong to the current vendor of your property, not you.

AlwaysCoffee25 · 08/05/2025 09:35

Tereseta · 08/05/2025 07:26

It doesn't need to go to the neighbours. You register a transfer of part and the strip would stay in the sellers legal ownership. It is up to them and the neighbours to then transfer ownership. Do not give it to the neighbours in your transaction as they do not have legal title ownership.

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👏🏻

abs12 · 08/05/2025 08:08

MummyToBeAgain1 · 08/05/2025 07:44

Why would I go through that extra drama when the seller has already provided us with a reduction which reflects the costs to register a new boundary.

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I totally get your point and I admire your peace with this situation. You have found a resolution you are happy with and that's awesome.

But I do think a valid point is the 10k reduction which will cover land registry costs, but what about land value? It's been reduced. And compensation for the whole sorry episode. That could be argued and you could ask the neighbours to register and pay costs... because they stole land. It's free to them. If they want it legally they pay the cost of registry or tell them the new fence comes down. And if that doesn't deter them... Your call.

Netaporter · 08/05/2025 08:00

@MummyToBeAgain1 i appreciate you are happy with your resolution and desperately want the house but I would be very cautious about the onus being on you of re-registering the boundary post purchase. As you know, the red line on the plan registered at the LR is only valid to within +/- 0.5m. When any party attempts to change the boundary line a notification is served by the LR on both parties so that both parties agree it before it is changed. It is not a process only the owner of your house has control of. If this is not sorted before you become the owner you are vulnerable to the neighbours (who have not behaved honourably up to this point) not agreeing the new line - maybe claiming more land is theirs or worse. I’m not wholly certain from your recent posts that the process of ‘simply’ re-registering the land has been made very clear to you. Please check that your solicitor has made provision to protect your interests in the event of this possibility. You do not need to buy a house which has a boundary dispute - your neighbours will dictate if you can ever sell it.

Original poster

MummyToBeAgain1 · 08/05/2025 07:49

Newlittlerescue · 07/05/2025 08:24

It's no problem if you don't intend to take it back, but you DO need to work out exactly what has gone on, and you don't seem sure at the moment. Has the land been sold to the CF (for a nominal fee)? have the sellers given an license to the CF to squat on the land? are you legally obliged to update the land registry post-sale (i.e. has this been written into the sales contract)? has the process already started at the land registry? could you do nothing for now, and then in the future when you have the appetite start the process to get your land back, etc etc? You need to know the exact position of the property you are buying before you sign the contract.

Without knowing, you have no idea the implications of this moving forwards which could affect the value of your property - for example lots of us here are super cautious and would not buy a house whose boundary was different to that shown on the title deeds, or (even if the boundary was updated in the CF's favour) got a whiff that this was achieved through a land grab. It reduces the pool of buyers for your property, thus affects the value.

"The day you buy is the day you sell"

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The land hasn't been sold to the neighbours. Nothing related has been written in the sales contract and I haven't started the Land reg part yet.

I need further advice before proceeding.

OP posts:

Letmecallyouback · 08/05/2025 07:46

MummyToBeAgain1 · 08/05/2025 07:44

Why would I go through that extra drama when the seller has already provided us with a reduction which reflects the costs to register a new boundary.

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Because legally the land is still yours regardless of the reduction.

Original poster

MummyToBeAgain1 · 08/05/2025 07:46

snotathing · 07/05/2025 11:56

I do not understand giving up actual property that you rightfully own.

Well, the OP doesn't own it yet. Possibly the current owner sold it to the neighbour, or allowed them to take it as they had been neighbours to their parents. They might have assumed the OP wouldn't notice.

It sounds like such a small strip that there might be no need to update the deeds. The boundaries aren't usually that precise on the maps.

Hopefully you got a nice big discount OP.

In regards to it being a small strip that we wouldn't need to update it on deeds - I assume this would be confirmed by a surveyor coming out?

OP posts:

Original poster

MummyToBeAgain1 · 08/05/2025 07:44

MelOfTheRoses · 07/05/2025 12:46

I would ask the neighbour for costs to register the new boundary.

Why would I go through that extra drama when the seller has already provided us with a reduction which reflects the costs to register a new boundary.

OP posts:

Original poster

MummyToBeAgain1 · 08/05/2025 07:42

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/05/2025 13:36

Excellnt post, Helen1625, and espoecially the first paragraph

Basically the sellers have accepted a reduction in order to pass the problems onto someone else, and depending how long the place had been for sale they may have had little choice

It also occurs to me to wonder if this was partly the purpose of auctioning it, so that the buyer would be quickly "locked in" before any dispute came to light

The main thing that would bother me though - having got away with this - is what else the folk next door might try. Clearly they're not honest and decent people, and frankly I'd want better neighbours

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The change was only made a few weeks ago - after the auction date - there was no dispute prior and things were how they should have been.

OP posts:

Original poster

MummyToBeAgain1 · 08/05/2025 07:40

SoMuchBadAdvice · 07/05/2025 20:00

OP - I think that you don't get what has happened and you need to get legal advice.

You are buying a plot of land which has had part of it fenced off from you. You have the choice of reclaiming it and enforcing your ownership rights by having the fencing removed, or you can give it to your CF neighbour and pay for the legal costs of registering your new reduced size plot. The vendor is passing these costs onto you as part of the purchase contract.

Personally, I think that either way, you are getting stiffed at £10k. Normal price reductions in this situation is 30% of market value.

The thing is though we've accepted exactly this. The reduction includes the costs of getting it changed on Land Reg and the legal costs involved.

Effectively, the neighbours are getting it for free but that should be a thought for the seller - Not me. I'm buying the property without the strip of land and I'm happy to change it on Land Reg after.

OP posts:

Tereseta · 08/05/2025 07:26

MummyToBeAgain1 · 06/05/2025 14:08

I've no idea about that but good point. What would happen?

Also, when we change it on Land reg then it's the neighbours - for free.

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It doesn't need to go to the neighbours. You register a transfer of part and the strip would stay in the sellers legal ownership. It is up to them and the neighbours to then transfer ownership. Do not give it to the neighbours in your transaction as they do not have legal title ownership.

Newlittlerescue · 08/05/2025 06:52

CantStopMoving · 07/05/2025 18:04

why? She owns the land. The issue will be for the neighbour when they come to sell. I would simply insist that when they sell they move the fence back.

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What if she wants to sell before the neighbour does? Many buyers, including me, would not touch her house with a bargepole if (a) part of it is licensed to someone else or (b) part has been legally assigned to the neighbour following a land grab or (c) she has ticked the box "has there been a dispute/is there anything in relation to the property that could lead to a dispute"

I don't want neighbours like that.

SummerDaysOnTheWay · 08/05/2025 06:07

TheWolfHouse · 26/03/2025 10:07

There no reason you can’t speak to the neighbour. You obviously can’t tell him what he can and can’t do with the fence but you can talk to him. It might give you a better idea if he is someone you could have as a neighbour or not.

This

SoMuchBadAdvice · 08/05/2025 06:00

SnakesAndArrows · 07/05/2025 20:12

Did OP tell us what the price reduction was? I don’t think she did. The £10k mentioned was the deposit originally paid.

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OK fine, the main point is that the problem (& costs of sorting it out) become OP's and the typical expression on these types of sale is "30% BMV".

OP make sure that your purchase includes an affidavit from the vendor, as they are unlikely to provide any help afterwards (taking the reasonable view that they reduced the price in order to pass the problem on).

mathanxiety · 08/05/2025 01:31

CantStopMoving · 07/05/2025 18:04

why? She owns the land. The issue will be for the neighbour when they come to sell. I would simply insist that when they sell they move the fence back.

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There is no guarantee the neighbours will ever sell.

I think OP needs to fight this regardless of the reduction in price. The neighbours have given no consideration whatsoever for the parcel they have annexed. The new state of affairs still hasn't been officially recognized.

Noodlehen · 07/05/2025 20:21

RawBloomers · 07/05/2025 17:42

That just kicks the can down the road, though. Sorting things out when OP comes to sell could be trickier and take time that she can’t really afford.

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Agree with this completely, and the neighbours have shown what kind of people they are. There’s a high chance that more could happen and OP won’t be happy there and end up selling.

this needs to be iron clad whatever the outcome is, or there will be a lot of headache later down the line.

SnakesAndArrows · 07/05/2025 20:12

SoMuchBadAdvice · 07/05/2025 20:00

OP - I think that you don't get what has happened and you need to get legal advice.

You are buying a plot of land which has had part of it fenced off from you. You have the choice of reclaiming it and enforcing your ownership rights by having the fencing removed, or you can give it to your CF neighbour and pay for the legal costs of registering your new reduced size plot. The vendor is passing these costs onto you as part of the purchase contract.

Personally, I think that either way, you are getting stiffed at £10k. Normal price reductions in this situation is 30% of market value.

Did OP tell us what the price reduction was? I don’t think she did. The £10k mentioned was the deposit originally paid.

SoMuchBadAdvice · 07/05/2025 20:00

OP - I think that you don't get what has happened and you need to get legal advice.

You are buying a plot of land which has had part of it fenced off from you. You have the choice of reclaiming it and enforcing your ownership rights by having the fencing removed, or you can give it to your CF neighbour and pay for the legal costs of registering your new reduced size plot. The vendor is passing these costs onto you as part of the purchase contract.

Personally, I think that either way, you are getting stiffed at £10k. Normal price reductions in this situation is 30% of market value.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/05/2025 18:10

Sorting things out when OP comes to sell could be trickier and take time that she can’t really afford

Very likely, yes, especially as there's now a clear boundary dispute which would have to be declared

And before anyone says that was with the previous owner, the question asked is whether the property itself has given rise to a dispute rather than who owned it at the time