To think SAHM with young DC deserve more respect

She may well do. I want her to have the choice of all the options available to her, which is why I certainly won't be suggesting that she deliberately looks for the kind of career you can take extended breaks from.

Bloody hell, I mean, I have a friend who always said she wanted to have children before she was 30. Her own mother has never worked, as far as I am aware. She ended up getting into a career path she is passionate about but which definitely doesn't allow for any significant breaks. She's married to the guy she's been with since she was 17, and is now approaching 40 with a cat and a dog but no children. Somewhere along the way she just decided she didn't want them more than she wanted the other stuff in her life.

The choice is always there to leave a high powered career if you want to stay at home with your kids and aren't bothered about getting back in again. But it's much harder to get into one later if you regret having chosen the slow lane.

You don't need to justify why you work @MissScarletInTheBallroom . I respect that.

Your daughter may find herself making decisions in alternative contexts. That's all.

It was a goady question and I think you know that.

What do I want for my 2 year old? I want her to be happy. I want her to realise her full potential. I don't want her to be held back by regressive ideas such as "if you love your kids you don't put them in childcare". I want her to be financially independent.

My children have a much better quality of life than they would have if I didn't have the job that I have. In terms of the salary that I take home vs the effort I actually expend to earn that salary, I have a pretty great deal. And a lot of flexibility.

If I didn't have the job that I have, we would live in a smaller space in a less nice area and my children would have a lower quality of life and fewer opportunities than they currently have. So I work. And I am the main breadwinner.

For me it is absolutely clear that any short term benefits my children would get from me staying at home would be more than offset by the disadvantages of me not working.

As it is, they're thriving and we are all happy.

So yes, this is what success looks like to me.

'What kind of a question is that?'

@MissScarletInTheBallroom - I'm trying to understand what you're advocating for. You seem to argue that strategic planning around career breaks for a family is 'limiting girl's choices.' So what then? Just stay in the corporate lane at all costs - is that what you want for your 2 year-old?

Exactly.

There are so many posts on this site from mums stressing because their home isn't big enough for all their children, or trapped in an abusive relationship because they are completely financially dependent on a man and can't afford to leave, sometimes it's so obvious that the advantages to their children of having a SAHM are vastly outweighed by the disadvantages of having a smaller family income and only one working parent.

Totally agree
It's not bashing sahms it's common sense
If you are in financial difficulties then you need to get a job.
If childcare is the issue look for night/ weekend work.
This idea that being a SAHM is sacred and being told to get a job means you are a victim is batshit.

It's a simple fact.

Even if they left school at 18 and have been working ever since, which is the case for very few of them, they can have an absolute maximum of ten years' professional experience behind them, largely at the bottom of the food chain wherever they have been working. Given that most young people don't start working at 18 and many do some sort of higher education and/or travel (particularly those who have already decided to prioritise anything but work), it's more likely that they have a maximum of 5/6 years' professional experience.

It's also pretty unlikely that they have already had a child and taken maternity or paternity leave, given that the average age for a first time mum is now older than 28, and those who are having children earlier are usually those who don't have particularly high career ambitions in the first place and therefore less to give up in terms of salary and career progression if they choose to stay at home.

So how many 28 year olds have both (a) spent more than a handful of years working in a proper career path and (b) already taken at least one maternity leave, and can therefore talk about how to juggle these competing priorities with anything even vaguely resembling personal experience?

Very few, I'd say.

I imagine when you’re back at work in a few months time, getting a 3 year old and a (possibly still breasted) baby up, fed, nappy changed, dressed and out to drop off at childcare before doing a days work, then coming home to still have to do the washing, cook dinner etc - you’ll look back on this time as easy in comparison!

I honestly am not going to respond to this message properly. You have some very strange ideas about 28 year olds that verge on ageist.

You're doing just that when you advise them to be cautious about planning a career which doesn't allow for any significant time out.

Most 28 year olds don't know their arse from their elbow. They're certainly not the boss of anything yet and they don't have enough experience of the working world to know whether their attitude to working life is going to be a good strategy for success.

What kind of a question is that?

I think it is clear pp means it isn’t as simple as “just take a few years out” in all careers.

brettsalanger same here. Some both and being a SAHM was infinitely easier.

I think it must partly doomed on the job you do too.

Last year I had a month off between jobs. It was heaven. I dropped DD at school; worked out; did all the housework, it was still only 10.30 am. I had so much free time left each day.

Compare this with leaving the house at 7 am, doing drop off, commuting, managing a demanding full time job, driving home and getting back at 7 pm.....yes SAH was a dream.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom- "In my line of work you would struggle to get back in after any significant time off. Even taking more than 6 months' maternity leave is considered long."

Is that your definition of success?

Nobody is doing that!

Gen Z can be 28 years old.

I’m a HR Director. Have worked in several sectors.

Gen Z are different. Eg a cohort of brand new band 5 nurses barely out of the wrappers expecting to be band 7 managers within 2 years, or economist grads wanting to be promoted 2 levels the day after their grad programme ends. A large proportion don’t seem to understand that you have to put the effort in to learn the craft, or that organisations are triangles and not everyone will become the CEO. Yes, they have healthy attitudes to work life balance etc, but they often get a massive reality check (No, your degree doesn’t make you special. No, you’re not likely to get recognition if you aren’t visible and don’t go the extra mile. I had one that put “manage to watch 6 hours of Netflix whilst working” as an achievement on their annual review. They genuinely couldn’t see why the org might not think that was something to celebrate!)

Gen Z are barely out of nappies.

I think encouraging girls to limit their options at a young age based on your own world view that children are better off with a stay at home parent is regressive, yes.

I’ve been both.
sahm was by far easier than working for me.

I took 5 years off to bring up my family and never felt disrespected. You are of course right that it is a big and very important job.

If you're talking about respect from the other partner, then yes, of course I agree that they should show respect for the SAHP's contribution to their home. And I agree that they should make provisions for the SAHP's pension etc. Assuming, of course, that they are happy with being the sole breadwinner and having a SAHP in the first place, which isn't always the case.

I think it's totally reasonable to want your role to be respected within your own family. I just think it's different when you start demanding respect from the wider society.

Increasingly it's not and increasingly it's nothing to do with raising children either. Gen Z is very very different. It is just pure common sense that you choose a career that facilitates your life goals. .

You seem very set on a 'one size fits all' approach. You think a chink in the 'get educated and get a highly paid job' is regressive for women. The truth is not everyone wants that or at least not all the time. It's as bad as the 1950s when being a SAHM was the only option available to women. Women want choice and flexibility.

Of course it needs more respect. It’s work! And if there’s a partner parent in fulltime work, they should be contributing to the SAHP’s pension. It’s only fair. That SAHP’s (usually SAHM) are treated like worthless second class citizens is bonkers. And the SAHP pays for it in the end!

And being a father isn’t?
So if a baby boy is born we teach him to work hard and do well at school and get a good job.
A baby girl is born and no point in all that as she can just sit at home on extended leave, not bother going back and let a man pay for her.

Except that in reality, it is.

Yes it is. It might not be your message but it is certainly society's message.