To think we are heading into a pensions disaster

Just one question - as employers contribute to the LG pension scheme, (which is said to be fully funded) where does their contribution come from? Council tax payers? Loans? Investments? Anyone know?

@FixTheBone Nearly every single person in the workforce has started on a lower salary! Why do you think you are any different? Your pension payments from the government easily make up for this. How come you can multiply earnings by 6 if you weren’t NHS? That’s a huge multiple and barely believable. Most people would take that and shut up about their NHS pension being dragged down by being a junior doctor. Your job is still the best return on any degree at any university (source IFS) so most of us don’t resent what you get but do resent the moaning when you have a very good pension most can only dream about.

Apart from the fact its not a final salary any more, its career average.

So the first 18 years when my taxable pay was between 19k and 37k drag the benefit down significantly.

Then, the final kicker, how many years of that 35-50k actually get paid out...?

As referemced, I absolutely have nit discounted the benefits we get in the NHS, its why I accept 1/6th the Pay i could earn elsewhere, plus the fact nowhere privately provides the type of work in enjoy.

The point is - take away the benefits and people will demand a comensurate imorovement in baseline pay that will hit the economy the moment it is implemented, any pension savings will take decades to be realised.

The other overlooked point is that besides last year pay has fallen behind inflation since 2007, this not only impacts take home, but devalues the final pension value as well - so a double hit, plus ive had final salary scheme taken away in 2008 and a second reform in 2015 that removed lump sums, raised the age at which it could be taken and increased the penalties for early retirement.

Over a career a consultant retiring at 65 now is around 40% worse off than they would have been on 2005.

@taxguru I would actually not want career politicians. I prefer older people with work experience at a high level. Successful people in their own right. Preferably of running a business and in possession of a decent brain. Not followers of political dogma and people who just spout ideology. We have seen where this gets us. A government with little understanding of the needs of business to make money so we all flourish. Punishing business seems to be an entrenched political view.

We need people who can get to grips with our problems as a country, not just political cannon fodder who back any hare brained policy.

If they carry on with their successful careers after being an MP, so be it. I don’t care about that. What I care about is having the brightest and the best making our laws. We don’t have that and desperately need it.

Yes, pay them more and completely ban any other business interests, ban them getting "rewards" after they leave office by being given "consulting" roles in firms they've helped by influencing policy, ban any financially gain from lobbyists etc. Make it a career on it' own rather than a step to riches afterwards.

What, even GPs, consultants and dentists??

@PalmTreeAngel it's nice in theory and what DH and I thought aged 60. However, I am nearly 65 now and am far more tired now than five years ago despite being fit and well. I do a demanding job (intellectually) and if we have a busy weekend, am absolutely shattered the following week.

I am planning to reduce to three days in the autumn for a year or two and with an expectation of grandchildren and elderly parents am certain my three days at work will be replaced with elder care and visiting children/grandchildren afyer a year or two. I will not be geographically close enough to offer care.

I have begun to realise that there is a parallel between aging and late pregnancy. At 32 weeks I was up for anything, by 36/7 weeks I needed much more pacing.

I don’t plan to retire completely - I like the idea of working part time to top up my pension. I’m currently 34. With the spiralling cost of living costs, it’s really difficult to save into a pension. We just bought a house & got married as well. I’ve set my employer contributions to 6%

@MidnightMeltdown MPs can have a very short shelf life. Also when compared to state employment, they are a drop in the ocean. We have pretty poor MPs at the moment and really need to pay more, not less.

The default age is SPA however, in exchange for a lower sum you will be able to take pension benefits earlier than this.

Surely this depends on how your uni manages placements? Mature students got priority for local placements where I was. Most of my placements involved living in other cities in temporary accommodation, at best I had one with hours long commutes and only one of mine was full 12 hour shifts so mostly I was working across the week

Again it depends if you stay local for holidays also. I could never earn enough to justify paying all summer long for accommodation and end up going back to my home town (where I earnt what i could over the summer)

Again I was let go from 2 zero hours contracts because I didn't have enough regular availability.

I imagine it's different if you have perhaps more experience etc. But most care settings won't invest the time and training g in someone brand new that might not be even able to commit to a shift a week

I did Nursing as a degree and was a Mature Student with one child and loan parent. My mum did help with some childcare.

Yes it’s not easy but perfectly achievable.

I worked on the staff bank at my local hospital. I always worked a minimum of 18 ish hours a week. My placements were full time at 37.5 hours but I did these as 12 hour shifts.

When I was at Uni or on Uni holidays I could often work Full-time hours to pay the bills.

I saved up enough money to take a 4 week break to get the last bits of my work done towards the end of my degree.

You just have to be organised and willing to work nights/days. Plus pick the right shifts with the best enhancements.

Many in my course where not willing to give up there weekends or evenings. Even heard some laughing and joking about the fact they spent all their rent money on going out and mummy/daddy where coming to the rescue to pay it 🙄

I agree re. Ponzi scheme and it makes me wonder what will happen if/when thousands of jobs are cut in the public sector (which is already happening in NHS England, the civil service and will no doubt happen with local government reform and devolution too). There will be less workers paying into the public sector pensions , but the same number of recipients.

But public sector workers usually do not benefit from bonuses like some do in the private sector. Where I work (council) there are no bonuses, but my friend who works a similar job/salary in private sector just got a £10k bonus and received similar last year and the year before that. There are also private sector employers who match up to 10% pension contributions and sometimes even more.

Don’t blame public sector workers for crap private sector employers who only pay the basic minimum. Pension contributions is often something ignored when (particularly young people) look for a job but it should be seen as part of the package along with salary and annual leave.

The NHS pension is linked to state pension age. God knows what age I’ll be before I get mine. There is not a chance I’ll be able to do my job till I’m 67-70.

Also, if they changed public sector pensions then they’d be even more people in the shit. The problem is that most private pensions are shite, not that public sector ones are too fabulous. Unfortunately businesses are more interested in providing for shareholders than workers.

Presumably MPs have a similar sort of pension. If they changed public sector pensions then they’d have to change their own as well. Can’t see that happening.

Where did I say that schools should only teach things in which pupils are interested?

Pensions go up with time and age so the OP figures dont compare.

Foolishly…...

My pension pot is much healthier than that and I certainly won’t be paying for university. Thats a wild choice to make

Don't dream it, live it. Come and teach and enjoy the perks.

I like the idea of a next steps week

However I don’t think you can teach kids about pensions as they don’t believe they will get old.

Or when they see their peers claiming disability benefits and not working

I’ve mentioned this before but I absolutely do.
My base salary is ~55K and this year my employer contributed £21k to my pension (well they don’t exactly but it’s my share of what they put into the fund). I also get a bonus of around £4-5k
I put in nothing I do have a separate pension I put some money in so overall 2k/month is going into a pension.
I could have chosen to move employer and overall have similar level of remuneration but less as pension and more as salary but didn’t. My friend works in a similar role in a different large corporation. She gets paid £70k. She pays 7% pension contribution and work pays 14%. So overall that’s 15k in her pension and £65k pay.
There is nothing whatsoever stopping her putting another £5-6k into her pension if she wants to but she chooses to have the money now. Lots of people choose that. It’s their prerogative but public sector workers are also allowed to choose an option where they accept less pay up front and a better pension later.
I do think when discussing remuneration for a fair comparison you need to look at total package value and not just salary. If you do that then lots of public sector workers are not underpaid but just take a larger portion of their overall income as benefits

And won’t work after GCSE or A level when they see their parents (and assorted ‘step/parents’) living on benefits and/or not saving for retirement.

As the old saying goes...

Fail to prepare = prepare to fail!