Why are we letting children call the shots?

I hope I never meet you and Young Colombus in a restaurant. Amazing his exploration doesn't extend to exploring some boundaries 🤦🏾‍♀️.

What advice? Never heard this.

This is not advice I've ever subscribed to. I've just been on another thread where a poster's adult child is demanding their mother funds their expensive postgraduate education and accomodation alongside a round the world trip during a gap year. And the mother was saying yes before other posters put her right! This is where it starts - a spoilt child becomes an entitled and demanding adult. Part of good parenting is teaching kids they can't have what they want when they want.

I mean this isn't 'the advice now' though is it? There's no one source of advice, and even if you took an average of ALL the advice that's out there then it probably wouldn't come close to this - just look at this thread for example.

I don't really like labelling myself a 'gentle parent' but am more aligned with that approach than not, but I've never seen this advice and it's never been how we do things either. We eat together at the table, if we're at home and DD has finished she can get down and go back to playing, but there's no coming and going - to be fair it rarely happens this way because if there's still food around then she's still interested! If we're eating out or we have visitors then she stays till everyone is done - but if it's a particularly lengthy meal then she might draw/ colour/ play a quiet game.

Some parents may be choosing to do this because it's easier/ avoids tantrums etc, but it's unlikely to be because they've been formally advised to do so.

DS is nearly 21, Dd is 18 but they absolutely asked to leave the table, but to honest rarely did, they like family meal times. From 6 or 7 they were also expected to clear their plates away and stack the dishwasher after dinner.

Because unfettered liberalism has everything back to front in this country.

Telling them off doesn't help with meltdowns either though, does it?

I mean I agree that there's no point validating their feelings if they are having an extreme emotional response because that's the time for a different approach.

It's not helpful if they are just telling parents what not to do without providing constructive support/courses/training in therapeutic or positive parenting, though.

I'm not letting him have devices, but until he's a bit older and able to properly read/draw at the table, yes, I'm going to follow him around whilst he explores the (child friendly) restaurant whilst the food is getting ready

What a selfish and entitled attitude you have. What about the enjoyment and safety of other diners, other well-behaved children, waiting staff?

If you're not prepared to put boundaries in place and ensure your child knows how to behave appropriately in a restaurant, then it'd be better for all if you stayed at home.

It’s different if the child is 3 or 10. I’ve never made my 3 year old sit until the end of an adult meal

My daughter (14) does, maybe not in so many words but "thank you for dinner, I've had enough, I'm going to head to my room if that's OK?"

She always has sat at the table to eat dinner and it has so so many benefits. I hear from friends etc about kids eating in their rooms etc and it makes me so sad as we have a lovely time having dinner as a family.

There is no universal parenting advice, outside of a few things - don't hit them/terrorise them, do have some boundaries/expectations, provide stability, support them and love them.

It's up to you to decide if you want to have a rule around staying at the table or not. Same as it's up to me and DH to decide for our family.

There is no way he should be wandering around the restaurant, child friendly or not.

This isn't true or it's at least disingenuously edited.

Of course you can say I understand you don't want to put your toys away, you just follow it with, but you have to, because it's time for dinner/bedtime etc

What would you say when your child is having a 'meltdown'

Same for me as a child! We weren’t expected to sit at the table if we had finished eating as meals could go on for ages in our house, but we were expected to ask permission to leave the table.

I did the same with DS as we’d often sit at the table long after dinner had finished, just chatting or having a glass of wine. If he had eaten his fill then of course he could go and play or come back to the table with a book or something to occupy him. But food was always consumed at the table - it was family time to talk about our days and generally enjoy each other’s company.

According to social services you can't tell a kid off. You have to say stuff along the lines of " I understand it's hard having to put your toys away" etc..I've no idea how that logic works when my son is trashing a room because he's having a meltdown

What have you been reading? It sounds like some click bait daily mail article.

I've got two toddlers and everything ive ever read has said that once they are done to take their plate away until the next meal / snack time.

I think this advice is made up to strike a debate. I’ve not heard it anywhere and there’s no source given…

We owe it to our children to teach them how the wider world works, basic manners, consideration and courtesy for others are part of this. Always took mine out to eat from a really early age and did not allow them to run around, how does it help them to have the mistaken belief that they can do as they please? At home they could leave the table when they had finished eating but I always tried to make mealtimes relaxed and sociable. Never ever forced them to eat anything they did not like or want. that was done to me as a child and I have never forgotten being forced to eat a pear. I had taken a bite and hated the texture, I was forced to sit there and finish it. Never eaten one ever again, even typing this is setting my teeth on edge.

I agree and I had five. I think a part of it is the smaller family trend. If you only have one child then you (I suppose naturally) assimilate that child more into the decision making part of family life. When you have more children and every single one has a separate opinion and you just don't have TIME for every single decision to come to some kind of concensus - especially when every child has a very different opinion - sometimes you bring out the BECAUSE I SAY SO AND I'M THE ADULT.

"Please may I leave the table" Don't suppose anyone does that anymore but we had to say that as children if we wanted to leave before the adults.

I haven’t seen that advice?

I don't consider myself an expert but I have more than your average amount of children (6) and yes I trained them.

Everywhere we go, people comment on how polite and well behaved they are, usually accompanied by a surprised tone. As if because there is a lot of them they are expected to be feral. No.

They need to learn discipline and boundaries. They need to learn what is right and wrong. They need to learn morals, ethics, values. They need to learn was is acceptable and how to behave in society.

As a parent, you are a teacher, an educator. Your job is to teach your children these things.

These faddy and ridiculous "gentle parenting" methods are creating a whole herd of young people with self centred, woke, snow-flakey attitudes and no idea how to take responsibility for their own actions.

Parents have lost control because they are too scared to discipline their own children.

And where is this advice coming from?

I advise that Children should not have a specified bedtime, and should control all the money in the household, and should never have to do any chores.

How bad is that? But that's my advice....

When you say your child won't sit in a high chair.... Exactly what choice do they have if you sit them in and do up the straps securely?

If they fuss you don't just take them out... You give them something to do while sat there. You give them a toy to play with or paper and chunky crayons to make marks. A car to drive across the tray? Yes they might fuss a bit the first time but they get used to it? Learning to be able sit for periods of time is really important. You start small, just 5 mins while they eat their snack maybe.

Too many people just hand toddlers a snack while they are walking about. I always had mine sit for their snack.

Really? Where does this advice come from then? If you want to moan about people that do this at least just be honest about it.