Why are we letting children call the shots?

My point wasn't about how well ed psychs or I raised children, it was about whether or not the ludicrous assertion that all children behave the same was true.

But I notice that very few people are willing to engage with my questions about whether their kids who were good at sitting in restaurants had any other areas where they needed support.

I am in fact surprised that these paragons of parenting who never needed to work on any aspect of child behaviour or development weren't referenced in studies due to their abounding genius.

Or MAYBE they faced different challenges with their children and MAYBE my son is better than their kids were at those things. But who knows,I suppose I ought to go back to inadequately raising my child.

Not worried about you, worried about the people who have to encounter you.

Exactly what we still do! My children ask to get down from the table and then thank whoever has cooked/prepared their meal for them! Always been done from a young age and it’s just natural to them.

Honestly, I've got plenty. Don't worry about me.

I'm not letting him have devices, but until he's a bit older and able to properly read/draw at the table, yes, I'm going to follow him around whilst he explores the (child friendly) restaurant whilst the food is getting ready.

I'm sure the staff and other families will be delighted to have a toddler wandering around in the restaurant.

Get a grip please @TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis

Apparently the advice now is to let your child get down from the table when then feel like it during dinner etc. If they don’t feel like eating and want to play with their toys, coming and going as they please, then that should be permitted.

Since when did parents become incapable of thinking for themselves? Do what you think is right, forget the self-styled experts, the advice from money making books and, most of all, ignore MN!

A health visitor. What do THEY know?
So a nurse, in other words. Might just be her own opinion.

Amazing how many parents think it's their god given right to eat out in restaurants with a small toddler who can't behave

Stay home, or have a picnic in a park.

Well why did you make such a silly statement?

I agree, we should make them stand in the corner for hrs on end. Bring back the belt

This seems to be your understanding of discipline.

I think problem started when parents decided to be friends with their children rather than parent them. I grew up with the joys of my lovely Mum chasing me and my younger sister upstairs waving a bamboo stick around. I loved her dearly and still do. I can't imagine todays kids surviving a 60/70s childhood where in reality it would do them the world of good because we were free to explore our world.

I don’t understand - so you’re saying your nephew sometimes did want to get down from the high chair. In which case what happened then, since it wasn’t allowed? Was he padlocked in place and left to scream it out?

We’ve always taken our children to decent restaurants from the word go. They were sitting nicely for family meals at home long before they had the stamina to sit for a 90-120 minute restaurant meal though. And of course there will always be good days and bad days depending on how tired or hangry they are. And then there’s the odd time when the restaurant is having some sort of crisis and it takes twice as long for the food to come out.

I honestly think this image you paint of 1 and 2 year olds sitting quietly still for hours on end at every meal out to be fantastical, but if you say that’s your experience then obviously I can’t argue with you. But despite having these unicorn babies, would you really judge another parent taking their toddler for a stroll in a restaurant to keep him/her calm and happy assuming that it didn’t disturb the other diners or get in the way of the waiting staff? If anything, I’d be impressed they were making the effort to do that rather than just sticking the child in-front of a screen.

Oh you're one of 'those' parents for sure! 'Natural born explorer' lol!

So all 40/50 year olds behave perfectly in restaurants? Elsewhere? They were more likely to be brought up with the table manners rules and I have observed some extremely rude 40-50 year olds.

So their parents obviously fucked up somewhere along the lines as well.

Because for every badly behaved 45 year old there are two parents, around 70, say, who did a bad job.

My son used to be backwards and forwards to the table. He has autism we figured out what works for is if he has his back to a wall he will stay at the table for longer. If we go out to eat we usually pick somewhere that has booths. He struggles to sit at a standard table and chairs in a restaurant. But if there’s nowhere suitable for us to sit we go somewhere else.

I think with 4 children I have a grasp in parenting thanks...

It's funny as I think DDs picked up "May I leave the table?" from granny's or from watching TV. I'm not sure it's something I particularly enforced, but neither were they wandering about or back and to from the table anyway or running about when they were meant to be eating.

The main thing I took from parenting guidance in the noughties (I was more of a House of Tiny Tearaways viewer than Supernanny) was that you keep mealtimes relaxed. If they didn't like the dinner I made they could eat bread and butter as long as they had given it a go. They both went through phases of eating lots of bread and butter, but came out the other side good eaters. I remember also one time in Pizza Express another parent of older kids saying how well behaved they both were and how on earth did we do it, I think they were six and three at the time. Some of it is certainly more luck than judgement though. DD2 does have ADHD but more inattentive/dreamy than hyperactive. Some kids are definitely harder to get to sit still. Mine would always colour in once they were old enough, or make something with a napkin.

Stupid "advice" that I'd never listen to.

Believe me, I get the point. Others aren't listening to or responding to mine.

He IS being taught to sit still. It's not a "one and done" lesson, though. He needs a lot more support with boundaries in this regard than others. Which means doing it, repeatedly, until he gets the message. Even if that includes bumps in the road where he needs to be escorted to the play section.

Think about all the possible things a child learns and develops - sleeping through, weaning, learning to talk, learning to walk, eating vegetables, brushing teeth, potty training, dressing, care routines.

There's a HUGE natural variation in all of these things. Do you agree with that, or do you think that all children learn all of those things at the same pace? If you agree with that, why do you then think that sitting still all through a meal is different from other forms of behaviour or learning? Did you teach your children to do those things by showing them once and they just magically understood it?

Incidentally, I don't mind at all the posters who think that if my son isn't ready to sit still in a restaurant then he shouldn't go. We might disagree on methodology, but they at least realise that different children have different dispositions.

Children in general feel far happier and safer when there are clear boundaries and expectations in place.
Putting them in a situation where they get to make the decisions will be completely overwhelming and terrifying for them. That's their parents' job, not theirs.

I had a little seat for my kids when they grew out of their high chairs. It sits on a normal chair and clips on. It also had straps. So they were always sitting with us at the table at meal times until we all finished. They still sit at the table every day and they are teens now. They learn what you teach. Parent how you want to. I didn't follow all the fads and my 2 are fine.

Don't be so ridiculous. It isn't some sort of binary - 'let them do exactly what they want'/'hit and abuse them'. Your critical thinking skills need work, if your posts on this thread are anything to go by.

Ageist much?

What age of child are we talking about? What I expected of my 18 month old was completely different to what I expected of her as a 3 to 4 year old which in turn is different from what I expect of her now at seven.

This is confusing in itself .

Health visitors only see children up until 5yrs, or 4yrs of the child has started Reception.

So either it's a toddler in preschool? Or 5yrs+ seen by a school nurse?

Regardless, there must be some other issues going on, eg ARFID, for a health professional to see an older child and give this advice. If that is the case, then it's advice given for a unique situation/child, that has some issues around food, so it doesn't apply to you and you can ignore this advice.

Some of the ed psychs, whether the top ones or not, have the worst behaved, feral children, while telling everyone else that what they are doing is wrong. Theory is all very well, but common sense is far more important. I have three grown up children. My oldest is autistic and went to a special school. Rules and boundaries are more important to autistic people than ever. As an adult, he lives independently and is able to fit in with others by and large. If l had followed your methods, he would have been terrified and had far more behavioural problems. My daughter is the youngest child. When she was fifteen months old, we were invited to an older relative’s home for Sunday dinner - a traditional roast dinner. There were several other older relatives there, all of whom were watching her like hawks. She was a trouper that day. She sat on her booster seat at the table, had a small portion of the meal and ate every scrap using a spoon and fork. I think that if we have low expectations of our children they will live down to them, but if we have high expectations, they will do everything in their power to live up to them.