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The UK has borrowed too much money, has a massive debt - £105 billion goes on paying our debt interest

331 replies

cakeorwine · 24/03/2025 08:14

A good visual guide from the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2025/mar/24/visual-analysis-how-the-markets-boxed-in-rachel-reeves

But basically, the UK has had to rely on borrowing money as it spends more than it brings in.

It has borrowed money at low interest rates - but these rates have increased.

£105 billion on servicing debt interest. When you are borrowing a lot of money, even a small change in the interest level will massively increase the actual amount of money we need to pay on interest

Some context from the OBR on the budget

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/brief-guides-and-explainers/public-finances/

Income: £1149 billlion
Spending: £1276 billion
Of which £104 billion is on interest payments
Deficit: £127 billion

We need either more income, less spending and reduced interest payments.

The UK has borrowed too much money, has a massive debt  - £105 billion goes on paying our debt interest
The UK has borrowed too much money, has a massive debt  - £105 billion goes on paying our debt interest
OP posts:
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7
Cumberlandsausagedog · 24/03/2025 13:33

FairlyTired · 24/03/2025 13:19

Why would anyone put their money into buying a house just to be taxed for it? That would just hugely increase people looking for council housing that then has the added benefit of not being taxed as well as lower cost, and privately renting so they are eligible for housing element of UC and better off.
We are worse off month to month with a mortgage than when we rented with UC, if owning a house was then taxed extra lots of people would just decide to avoid that by taking state support and renting.

I’m really confused. What tax are you talking about? The one I suggested that replaces stamp duty and council tax? 0.5-0.7% of the value of the property in which you live, no matter whether you own or rent it. Just like council tax, but value based on where you can afford to live. It would also have the benefit of reducing house prices / rental slightly.

FairlyTired · 24/03/2025 13:32

Badbadbunny · 24/03/2025 13:28

Short term pain for long term gain. You may be "worse off" on a short term cash flow basis with a mortgage, but at least you're paying towards owning your home, as your mortgage capital loan will be falling, and you'll almost certainly benefit from house price inflation over the long term.

That's currently the case, but adding a tax to penalise home ownership would reduce the benefits of owning a home, as well as in turn likely reducing house prices as there would be more demand for rentals and more people selling to avoid being taxed and to free up their money.

Badbadbunny · 24/03/2025 13:28

FairlyTired · 24/03/2025 13:19

Why would anyone put their money into buying a house just to be taxed for it? That would just hugely increase people looking for council housing that then has the added benefit of not being taxed as well as lower cost, and privately renting so they are eligible for housing element of UC and better off.
We are worse off month to month with a mortgage than when we rented with UC, if owning a house was then taxed extra lots of people would just decide to avoid that by taking state support and renting.

Short term pain for long term gain. You may be "worse off" on a short term cash flow basis with a mortgage, but at least you're paying towards owning your home, as your mortgage capital loan will be falling, and you'll almost certainly benefit from house price inflation over the long term.

Badbadbunny · 24/03/2025 13:26

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:26

To an extent, but it can't be tax alone. We also need to reduce the total benefits bill, and grow the economy.

That's the conundrum. How do you create growth?

Get people working. Part timers to work more hours, unemployed and disabled to work (if they can), discourage early retirement, etc.

Annajones101 · 24/03/2025 13:24

This is what happens when you have 9 million people of working age not working and 6 million of then claiming out of work benefits.

It’s also what happens when you have a bloated public sector, a useless civil service and even more incompetent politicians who have no experience of how to actually make money, only how to spend other people’s money.

Just to finish off what’s left of the economy, Rachel from accounts comes along and trashed it by killing businesses through tax hikes and Red Miliband starts spending borrowed money like confetti on the net 0 scam which is designed to funnel money to cronies or corrupt government officials and politicians.

FairlyTired · 24/03/2025 13:19

BIossomtoes · 24/03/2025 11:36

Life isn’t fair. As someone who’s paid all their life I’m all for it.

Why would anyone put their money into buying a house just to be taxed for it? That would just hugely increase people looking for council housing that then has the added benefit of not being taxed as well as lower cost, and privately renting so they are eligible for housing element of UC and better off.
We are worse off month to month with a mortgage than when we rented with UC, if owning a house was then taxed extra lots of people would just decide to avoid that by taking state support and renting.

FatherFrosty · 24/03/2025 13:14

I love the idea that all the OAPs plotted this like evil bond villains laughing as they sit there screwing over their grandkids in their glorious 1930’s semis in lovely towns.

they just got on with living, paid what was asked.
like we all do.

if the governments didn’t ask for more that was the issue. Not the pensioners.

it was all thatchers fault for right to buy, and privatisation of everything. Then successive governments not reversing it

Cumberlandsausagedog · 24/03/2025 13:00

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 24/03/2025 12:06

So CGT by a different name and by the back door?

Do that, lose every single home owner's vote.

A capital gains tax is a tax on the gain you’ve made. This is a tax on the current value of the property. Nothing to do with your purchase price at all. Same basis as the current council tax, but more reflective of the current value of your property rather than a past value and no limits on tax for mansions. Works really well in a lot of Western European countries.

Barleypilaf · 24/03/2025 12:56

Agree with many of the suggestions here.

Replace council tax and stamp duty with a 0.5% annual charge based on home value. They have something similar in California.

Ban the sale of U.K. homes to non-residents.

Remove the right to buy discount and build more council homes.

Keep the level of disability benefits unchanged but massively tighten eligibility so that numbers are similar to 10 years ago so no benefits for ADHD, ASD only for the most severe cases and none for anxiety. No mobility free car unless for a disability that means that one cannot walk unaided.

For children, DLA to be replaced with vouchers for therapy etc so that any money is spent to help the actual disability and to remove the incentive to have children diagnosed.

Make child benefit universal again, and the same for childcare. The disincentives to work caused by the means testing are wholly disproportionate.

BurntBroccoli · 24/03/2025 12:41

GasPanic · 24/03/2025 12:32

People have paid in all their lives.

What they haven't done is pay enough.

That's one of the reasons we now have £3 trillion debt and a government that is petrified of borrowing more because of what the markets will do as a consequence.

Yes that’s completely right! Haven’t paid enough in.

BurntBroccoli · 24/03/2025 12:38

Badbadbunny · 24/03/2025 12:07

Yes, so what, they paid taxes all their lives. Today's youngsters will be paying higher levels of "taxes". It's not some kind of savings scheme. Taxes today are paid for today's public spending, today's pensioners, today's public services, etc. It's how it's always been. Politicians have, for decades, over-spent and under-taxed and that's coming home to roost. Those with the biggest assets/wealth/savings need to be the ones to bear the brunt of tax rising or spending cuts. By that, I mean people with above average savings, above average incomes, etc. We need to start means testing ALL benefits including state pension, disability payments, etc. Start relatively high at say a household income of £100k - no one with that kind of household income needs any benefits - and I don't care if they've "paid all their lives" - they've got an income two or three times average income so they need to take more of the burden than, say, a worker on minimum or average wage.

Yup - pensions need means testing for sure.
We also need to build more social housing and infrastructure related to that.
Potential land tax (could be very achievable once the government bring in compulsory registration of currently unregistered land which is currently being looked at).

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:33

What they haven't done is pay enough.

They should put this message on the buses!

GasPanic · 24/03/2025 12:32

BurntBroccoli · 24/03/2025 12:28

Yes and the young today won’t be able to retire until they’re at least 70 if not older. There may not even be a state pension (due to rapidly decreasing birth rates), so many will live in poverty.

In the past as housing costs were much, much lower so a couple could comfortably survive on one wage. Many more women stayed at home as housewives (and who never really worked full time jobs despite their children being grownup) so these people haven’t actually “paid in” all their lives.

People have paid in all their lives.

What they haven't done is pay enough.

That's one of the reasons we now have £3 trillion debt and a government that is petrified of borrowing more because of what the markets will do as a consequence.

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:31

As a poster said earlier, shift the balance of taxation from earned to unearned income.

So higher CGT and asset taxes.

This makes sense but so many are outraged about recent higher CT on their 2nd properties that they own but don't rent out. Many people feel
entitled and don't want systems to change.

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:29

Think about how much money goes into servicing mortgages, paying rent. How so much of that rent is topped up by tax payers money and rather than going back to the government goes to landlords.

GasPanic · 24/03/2025 12:29

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:26

To an extent, but it can't be tax alone. We also need to reduce the total benefits bill, and grow the economy.

That's the conundrum. How do you create growth?

As a poster said earlier, shift the balance of taxation from earned to unearned income.

So higher CGT and asset taxes.

BurntBroccoli · 24/03/2025 12:28

WaryCrow · 24/03/2025 11:55

So do we. By the time I am their age I will also have paid in 'all my life'. The difference is I will still be working, unable to afford the cushy 40 year retirement that they have been granted. I have worked far far harder than my parents already for far less at every stage of life.

Yes and the young today won’t be able to retire until they’re at least 70 if not older. There may not even be a state pension (due to rapidly decreasing birth rates), so many will live in poverty.

In the past as housing costs were much, much lower so a couple could comfortably survive on one wage. Many more women stayed at home as housewives (and who never really worked full time jobs despite their children being grownup) so these people haven’t actually “paid in” all their lives.

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:26

To an extent, but it can't be tax alone. We also need to reduce the total benefits bill, and grow the economy.

That's the conundrum. How do you create growth?

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:24

They also paid tax and NI all their lives.

The vast majority won't have paid enough to cover their state pension. Thats why changing demographics matter

Badbadbunny · 24/03/2025 12:23

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:18

The only option is more taxation but we have to spread it across everyone.

To an extent, but it can't be tax alone. We also need to reduce the total benefits bill, and grow the economy.

SummerFeverVenice · 24/03/2025 12:22

Cumberlandsausagedog · 24/03/2025 08:28

This is a large part of why disability payments at the current level are unaffordable and borrowing to give people benefits is the wrong answer. This is what all of those people who think Labour are evil for tackling the soaring benefits bill fail to comprehend. The country is totally economically f’d.

They are evil for cutting disability and incapacity benefits because it will end up costing more and hurting the economy more. You can’t cut your way to a growing economy’s . We already have 1 million more unemployed than there are job vacancies, adding another 2 million disabled isn’t going to magic up enough jobs. In fact, by targeting the majority of the cuts on PIP, they are going to push tens of thousands of disabled people out of work, but who cares right? The fit and healthy are always the priority for work, which is why £1bn of the money snatched out of the hands of the disabled will be handed to contractors to set up and run a youth employment assistance service.

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:22
  • They need to be means tested Disability payments only to those earning under 60 Thousand ,for example*

But what about older people who earn under that but have hundreds of thousands of pounds of housing equity.

Housing inflation and wage stagnation has created so much intergenerational inequality and really fucked the economy.

WaryCrow · 24/03/2025 12:21

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 24/03/2025 11:59

You are barking up
tbe wrong tree.

Your education and health service have been thanks to the generations before you.

You can’t boy a house because of the explosion in demand that the huge rise In population brought.

Nothing to do with a few pensioners not wanting to give you their homes.

My health service? I can assure you that my parents’ experience of that has been far better than mine. My mother had the experience of ‘lying in’ for a week at a local hospital that shut down decades ago. My second birth was abroad where they still do that: odd how other countries can still afford these things. I am increasingly convinced that I would have died on the NHS.

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:18

The only option is more taxation but we have to spread it across everyone.

mushroomshroom · 24/03/2025 12:14

We never recovered from 08 and low interest rates just masked a lot.