The UK has borrowed too much money, has a massive debt - £105 billion goes on paying our debt interest

Probably I would say on housing. Housing is a great way to tax people as it is immovable and the asset stays in the UK

That is the only real option left I think

I agree with pretty much everything you say.

Unfortunately the VI in keeping the system the way it is is strong.

I was hoping under Labour we might get fundamental policy changes. To me the most dangerous example of imbalances is when you get one government in charge for a long time, but then when the other replaces it they double down with exactly the same policies.

So for example in housing (a bugbear of mine), Thatcher basically bought in the right to buy, fair enough at the time. But then during the 10 years that followed Tony Blair and Labour basically doubled down on this (Blair built fewer council houses in his entire tenure than the supposedly "anti council housing" Thatcher did in 1 year of hers). That's led to some of the issues we see in the rental sector, housing problems and housing affordability now.

Re Labour currently, they just seem like Tory lite with a few woke distraction policies tacked on to try to control the faithful. The imbalances are continuing and they are not doing anything about it. But in my opinion there is great opportunity through change, but it going to take great pain for some sections (middle class especially as those are the people with assets) to go through those changes. So takes a leader with guts and determination and a vision greater than the next 5 years. Not how our democracy is set up.

Definitely I see increasing inheritance tax and undoing the loopholes as just, I see it more as the older section of society paying for services they never properly paid for in the first place but funded through borrowing. I don't see the fairness in making the young pay for this. But again making this change seems very difficult, especially since huge numbers of people see inheritance tax as a negative even though they themselves will never pay it.

I agree totally with the unearned income issues. But again the VI there is strong, and the screaming is going to be incredible when the shifts finally start to happen.

Unfortunately most people don't spend enough time thinking about or voting on economic issues beyond what is important to them. This probably means we are going to end up having a deep collapse followed by radical changes followed by recovery rather than a managed transition to new policies that work.

Welfare needs to be massively cut. No households should be on benefits for decades. Make it contribution based and time limited with the exception of the very disabled (as it is in other countries, including Germany, I believe).

The elephant in the room is the cost of housing. The welfare system massively props up rents which makes housing unaffordable to buy and means those that don't claim benefits are priced out because they need to earn so much (after tax) to pay rent. It's completely normal in London, for example, for people on UC to be getting thousands a month in housing benefit help (UC element) which does nothing except make housing unaffordable and line the pockets of already very rich landlords (and the taxpayer basically buys them an asset) whilst artificially propping up rents and house prices.

Reducing housing benefits would reduce costs for everyone as rents would fall if based on ability to pay rather than an artificial floor, free up housing for those that currently have to commute (at great expense) from outside London because they can't compete with London housing benefit (UC element) rates and are not entitled to social housing. The system makes the rich richer and penalises workers who don't get any state help. No wonder productivity is through the floor!

I agree. RR has already made Labour unpopular, so it's probably the best time in a couple of decades to do some radical things for the long term benefit of the country.

They don't actually. If they are in receipt of housing benefit, they get a reduction. Doesn't apply to all council tenants, and doesn't even apply to all those in receipt of housing benefit.

Yes, so what, they paid taxes all their lives. Today's youngsters will be paying higher levels of "taxes". It's not some kind of savings scheme. Taxes today are paid for today's public spending, today's pensioners, today's public services, etc. It's how it's always been. Politicians have, for decades, over-spent and under-taxed and that's coming home to roost. Those with the biggest assets/wealth/savings need to be the ones to bear the brunt of tax rising or spending cuts. By that, I mean people with above average savings, above average incomes, etc. We need to start means testing ALL benefits including state pension, disability payments, etc. Start relatively high at say a household income of £100k - no one with that kind of household income needs any benefits - and I don't care if they've "paid all their lives" - they've got an income two or three times average income so they need to take more of the burden than, say, a worker on minimum or average wage.

Maybe. Going for the private sector at the same time as putting all eggs in growth basket was a bad idea. NI policies cut that growth.

So CGT by a different name and by the back door?

Do that, lose every single home owner's vote.

So many great ideas here, which tax wonks are promoting as the way forward.

The issue is with radical tax and spend policies is that they take time to work and will be unpopular with many so you can only do them when you have large majority and years before you face a general election. Now’s the time Labour, now’s the time.

Am I missing something in wondering what the largest figure, the 332B "other spending" breaks down as.

No, not cgt, a land tax every year payable instead of council tax. Pay 0.7% of your house value every year in tax, if you are cash poor this can be deferred and taken from your estate on death.

CGT on housing would be disastrous. No one would ever move house, hoping a new government comes in and removes the CGT.

You are barking up
tbe wrong tree.

Your education and health service have been thanks to the generations before you.

You can’t boy a house because of the explosion in demand that the huge rise In population brought.

Nothing to do with a few pensioners not wanting to give you their homes.

So capital gains tax on their homes.

Not going to happen. No party will do that.

So do we. By the time I am their age I will also have paid in 'all my life'. The difference is I will still be working, unable to afford the cushy 40 year retirement that they have been granted. I have worked far far harder than my parents already for far less at every stage of life.

They also paid tax and NI all their lives.

It is so true that the UK public doesn’t want to pay more tax, the reason being that they are skint, the reason being the astronomical house prices we face. High house prices are just so incredibly damaging in so many ways.

Wholeheartedly agree with this!

Care sector and private nurseries spring to mind. If we invested capital by borrowing, we could build the infrastructure to create more childcare and elderly care provision. At the moment there is a lot of money ending up as share holder profits from these 2 industries.
Things like water, transport and utilities clearly need to be taken back in hand.

They need to be means tested
Disability payments only to those earning under 60 Thousand ,for example

We need to increase tax on "unearned" income, i.e. all forms of investment income, scrap/reduce interest allowances/exemptions, investment income surcharge on rental income, interest, dividends, capital gains, etc.

Stop penalising workers and incentivising savers/investors.

We need to review inheritance tax - I'd go for a lower percentage rate and a lower threshold, i.e. something like 10% on everything over £250k per person - a lower rate but on a much broader population base - a low rate like that would mean expensive tax planning wouldn't be as viable so it wouldn't be worth people taking expensive steps to avoid it.

Increase main rate of VAT to maybe 22.5% or even 25% - lots of European countries have higher rates than the UK. Again, the aim being to spread the burden over a wider range, not just workers!

At the same time, bring in incentives for the disabled and unemployed to either get back to work or work longer hours. Stop the immediate loss of benefits and have a "trial" period where benefits remain in place for a few months just in case work doesn't work out. Likewise incentives for everyone to set up self employment or small businesses - same idea - no loss of benefit for the first few months whilst it's being set up and trialled.

We need to create a shift from those with savings/investments towards those we need to be working and growing the economy by doing something, i.e. making things, providing services, etc., and not just spending/saving.

Incorrect, many of those OAP's repeatedly voted for lower immigration and the Crown just carried on importing millions of new inhabitants regardless (the real reason you can't buy a house).

We are only well and truly fucked if the Government ever start defaulting on maturing Gilts because that would mean pension funds like LGPS and Teachers, Police and NHS would start failing, not to mention all the large company schemes.
If it ever got that far we’d have more to worry about than no money, the entire world would be falling apart.

@GasPanic

Fortunately for the old at the moment the young haven't quite joined up the dots. Maybe one day they will.

Lots have already "joined the dots" and there is growing awareness which is why so many of our young are disenfranchised with the whole thing, lots are planning to leave the UK, and there's the growing anti-OAP mood among the young.

My son works in one of the UK's largest insurers and most of his graduate cohort/peers he works with are seriously planning to leave the UK once they qualify. He's only been there 18 months and has already seen lots of his slightly older colleagues leave within a year or two of qualifying, and says every single one of them has emigrated - none have just moved to a different UK employer or changed industry. It's basically the talk of the canteen with them sharing website links to job opportunities abroad. He has no intention at all of staying in the UK for the long term.

Exactly!

(There is a joke about trickle down economics... 99% won't get it.)

our benefits bill will not get better until they fix the housing market.
until that is fixed our countries bills (like everyone individuals in it) will be increasing whilst landlords, and overseas investors get richer.

Especially if it can be deferred until they’re dead.