STOP calling people "a Karen"

@goodforher excellent post 👌

Firstly, its labelling the woman, not the behaviour. Its designed to make women fearful of asserting boundaries as they are scared of being labelled a ' Karen'. There have been posts on here where women have reasonable complaints (noisy neighbours) but say they are reluctant to complain as they don't want to be called a Karen. That is exactly what the term ' Karen' is intended to do. Make women scared of asserting themselves.

Secondly, its used ubiquitously for any woman trying to assert a boundary, not matter what that is. I see it all the time on village posts if women post about any issue, fly tipping, aggressive dogs - doesn't matter. ' Shut up Karen' ' Okay Karen' , will come the insults.

There is no male equivalent, however much people try to pretend there is.

I am sick of the 'label and dismiss' culture. If you have an issue with someone, address what it is in clear terms. Don't label someone and think that means you have 'won'.

I judge people who use the term Karen as it's often used by people (men and women) who can't see another point of view and who can't articulate themselves well. I believe the original use has been lost and basically is now used to tell someone to 'shut up'.

i said above that the Karen's I know couldn't be further from the stereotype but actually one is now in her 60s/70s and a brave lady who will stand up and intervene when she sees bad behaviour in public. She has intervened when hearing people insulting vulnerable people in public, and stepped in to save schoolchildren being bullied on their way home from school. Both things could well be called out as 'Karen' behaviour, but actually took a huge amount of courage and aided others who were in need of help. If we start attempting to silence/stop all 'busybody' behaviour, communities and individuals will suffer.

Hate it. I am on the facebook pages of villages and communities close to me and this insult appears regularly. Shameful. And yes, it is used to shame and silence women.

Except I've been told before that it's fine because men are called 'Kevin'......

I had to point out it was misogynistic on a thread just a few minutes ago. Nobody on there was raging at a public service worker, they were suggesting that vaping might not be ideal if you're pregnant.

So it should bother people because it has become a word just to insult women and try to shut them up - even by other women.

I think my fat thumbs voted the wrong way. I’m so sorry - you are unquestionably Not being unreasonable!
This is a lazy & insulting trope & more people should call it out. Horrible.

It's funny how not long after 'me too' society came up with an insult for women who speak out about things. Focusing on older women is nothing new. They say it because they aren't allowed to say "shut up old woman" which is what they mean.

I agree. I thought people were stopping this on here though. MN do class it as a personal insult and will delete any post that calls anyone this. So if you see anyone calling you - or someone else - a 'KAREN' please report it. It is demeaning and misogynistic, and as has been said, designed to shut women down who DARE to speak out about anything.

And who the actual F uses 'Daren' for men? (As a pp @MixedBananas suggested?) That's not a thing, and is not a demeaning insult.

The equivalent for a man (of a 'Karen') would be 'gammon,' which is also offensive, and borderline racist.

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Calling someone 'entitled' or 'very rude' is a better way, I agree that such behaviour is completely unacceptable.

All the women called Karen I have ever known are pleasant people.

I've never been called a karen

doesn't mean i should like it when other women are called karen for no reason

Why was the name Karen of all names picked ? It’s a beautiful name and I feel sorry for those called Karen.

I have a colleague in his late 20s who is using it on senior women in their 40s and 50s at work who are basically doing their job…. He is not in the U.K. so must be a global insult now.

Really grinds my gears and will always call it out.

Yes, that's happened before.

So calling someone a Karen is calling out their behaviour?
Perhaps just specify what the problem with the behaviour is, rather than rely on such offensive stereotypes.

Absolutely you should call out bad behaviour, but this name calling is both a lazy and abusive response

Nope. It is used by little kids objecting to being told to behave. It's used by teens if a female teacher challenges them. It's used by people on trains to abuse women who ask them to use headphones. Again, I'm not denying some people behave badly toward "low level" workers, but one does not exclude the other.

I know several women actually called Karen of different ages who are now concerned to share their name. All also happen to work in caring roles, and couldn't be further from the stereotype. The two I am closest two both have dead parents and it makes them really said that the name chosen by their much loved / loving parents has now developed such awful associations. This is not ok.

A lot of the times when people talk about ‘shutting women up’ it’s usually because their behaviour has been called out and they don’t like it.

If you feel so personally attacked then maybe think about why someone has questioned your behaviour.

Obviously it’s not ok to insult someone but I understand why this term is used having seen the verbal abuse and derogatory way staff are treated.

Also this thread will be hijacked shortly by people posting about the origins and saying that women who object the term being used mysoginistically are ignoring racism. Objecting the term being used in one way is not to deny it's origins or the reality of the way some people behave. It can be both.

Thanks OP for starting this thread to challenge this. I'm heartily sick of it.

I've heard it on here all the time. There was an entire thread justifying it. Including some awful claims that older white women are racist. Just awful.

It's the fear and resentment of older women who aren't prepared to shut up and put up. I'm not really a raging feminist and often roll my eyes when people get in a huff about old fashioned courtesy but this pisses me off.

It's misogynist, ageist shite. Any insult directed exclusively at older women is.

Me too! I only know this use of the name from Mumsnet. I have learnt that I would call it out though, if I do hear it irl.