Grandfather behaviour to granddaughter

You must confront your dad about this. Just tell him to stop, that it is inappropriate. If he blusters, and I think he probably will, just insist. Then see how it goes.

There is something not right about this. You cannot be the only family members to notice.

I'm so sorry, this must be horrible for you. However your daughter comes first and she will come to dislike it, if she doesn't already.

Having been in this situation myself it's really uncomfortable - and I don't think those who rush to blame the poster know what it's like.

With my late father who did very much the same things, he'd frame his behaviour as that of an affectionate father/grandfather. In his mind he'd be quite different from some 'dirty' predatory man, who might go round offering strange girls sweets, lifts in their cars, so that they could end up touching their genitals.

It was 'just' having them sitting on their knee, 'just' giving a massage on 'hands and feet'. And my mother confirmed that this was him being caring and good.

There is a great fashion for going no contact, but then there will come a point where the child asks why? And what do you say? I am honestly not sure if there are right and wrong answers here. Certainly no easy ones.

We need to protect our children and be aware of risks but it is also not particularly good to cut them off from a wider network of relationships

People are complicated. My father was a deeply flawed man, who did on one level genuinely love us, and some of the ways in which this affection was expressed were good. But there were other things about his behaviour that were uncomfortable and creepy- and there was, and still is, familial denial about this.

He died when my daughter was 10. I am glad that they had a relationship, but sad that I needed to supervise that relationship so very closely.

No. This is a massive no.

If a grandchild toddles over with a book, you scoop them on your lap and read until they are bored.

If they stick their feet in your direction, you give them a tickle and tell them they stink of cheese.

If they’ve hurt their foot, you say let’s have a look and rub it better.

What your dad is doing is non of these things. It is not the behaviour of a normal grandparent. Do not leave her alone with him ever. Tell him you are teaching her boundaries and you do not want him doing these things.

Hi, the very fact you are asking this question proves you have the right to be concerned. I'm just amazed he is risking doing it in front of you, if it is in front of you, although he seems confident that you won't challenge him. You seem to be maybe a little bit scared to do this and that could just be your personality or it could be down to deep rooted memories you have hidden away from something that happened when you were young, or is he just intimidating in his manner? Whatever the reason for this feeling you have, you need to act on it, now!.

You are an Adult now and have the responsibility of your child (and any other children in his range) If you are not confident enough to ask him why he insists on this awful, unwanted behaviour when your daughter is showing she is not happy with the situation, then your husband should step in and do it, quickly. Better still, unless you have deep love or affection for your father (and you don't seem to), then why are you even visiting? Stop the visits and keep your child safe. If you have a Mother do you not feel confident enough to broach the subject with her. If you stop visiting and you should, will he have access to other children? I entirely agree with the poster @Garliccheeseandabagel, read the post again, especially the first couple of paragraphs. Act quickly. please.

I say this as someone who's DD has no memory of her paternal GF because he's a dirty fucking nonce. Get your daughter away from this man right now!!
Something never quite sat right with me and I never left my DD alone with him. Thankfully when she was about 18 months he slipped up in another way and has never set eyes on her since!

You need to teach her that there are no secrets in your family. Teach her that there is no good reason for any adult to want a child to keep secrets and that not all adults are safe. No secret food or drinks and no secret games. Ask her if anyone who isn’t you has asked her to keep any secrets and reassure her that you will listen to her every time and believe her. (All of this taught to me by a cop in the relevant department.) Keep reinforcing this conversation. The aim of this is to get your kids automatically parroting “We don’t keep secrets in our family. I will tell my mum!”)

Horrifying…

Totally.

Noone should be forced to sit on someone's lap! Ever! No physical contact should be forced upon your child. You have to protect her from this. Tell him straight out :" No, Lisa does not want to sit on your lap. No, I'm not comfortable with you rubbing her feet."

The fact that you did not automatically protect your daughter implies that you may have been groomed by your father and you have difficulties with boundaries towards him. If I were you I would go to therapy first to figure out what happened to you (he might have abused you but even if he has "just forced hugs" it's a major 🚩). Do not let your daughter be around him if you are not strong enough to tell him off. Also, never ever leave your children alone with him.

Op if there's even a shadow of a doubt in your mind that he's harmful to your dd or might have been to you then you shut that shit down immediately. No explanation needed.

It's not normal to feel uncomfortable about your dad hugging you so something in his behaviour has been enough to alert your nervous system to danger.

Your dd needs to grow up listening to her inner alarm system and any adult that's over riding her boundaries at best, is making her vulnerable to abuse and at worst is grooming her for it. Any one of the things you've described would be enough for me to be calling him out directly and in front of your dd to back her up immediately and to be starting to limit contact. As a collective I'd no longer be in touch with him, no explanation given.

Op I'm sorry this is something you need to worry about. I think you should have a conversation (or another conversation) with your dd about 'tricky' people, and boundaries. I don't just teach my ds the swimsuit rule I teach him that those parts of his body are private, but that if any person touches or gets too close to you in a way you don't feel good about you can say no go away and ask for help from an adult you trust. And it doesn't matter who the person is. It also might be worth going for counselling yourself to help to y navigate and process the relationship you've had and have with your dad in a supportive way. I think it would be helpful as it might build your confidence in stepping in when you need to. When we grow up with parents like that who push boundaries or worse, that becomes the norm and it does make it harder to see things for what they are due to grooming and gaslighting so don't beat yourself up, just do what you need to in order to be stronger going forwards.

NC for this.

My Dad used to make me sit on his lap a lot, especially after a bath and with my Mum sitting in the other armchair. He used to molest me under my nightdress because he was a paedophile.

PROTECT YOUR CHILD!!!

omg protect your daughter!

Honestly I would be running a mile and not allowing my children to see him. Your responsibility is to protect your children not his feelings.

If you can’t trust your gut which is telling you that this is ok, trust the people objectively commenting on this behaviour who are telling you that it is deeply inappropriate and worrying. Your priority needs to be protecting your daughter, now. This means stopping contacting between her and him. Then seek some counselling to get to the bottom of why you feel so uncomfortable around him.

Difficult or not, you need to listen to your gut, step up and protect your DD. Right now op. If you need people on the internet to tell you that, to tell you this is creepy AF, and to tell you something isn’t right here - well fine, consider yourself told. Please don’t let this man alone with her, preferably reduce time near him, and safeguard your child - she is being groomed and boundaries eroded in front of your eyes as you are being too passive.

It is important that your DD knows she has the right to refuse to be touched or forced into an uncomfortable situation. You don't want her learning that she has to give up her bodily autonomy to keep an adult happy. I don't know what is going on with your father but he is teaching your DD dangerous lessons when it comes to how adults are allowed to treat her and how she is allowed to react.

Hopefully some of these posts will really sink in @Stripesarethethingforme You are correct to have major concerns but are being far too passive about it.
Sadly, your daughter is already being abused by having her boundaries around physical affection ignored and not being allowed to get away. She may be aware that something doesn’t feel right to her and that is one of the reasons she wants to get down. At the moment she is not being supported in her physical autonomy by you, or protected from the contact.
It isn’t your fault that your father is like this but awful as it is, you can’t take any chances. You wouldn’t believe how brazen child abusers can be. Prevention is the key as many of us can testify. Once something has happened you can never undo it. Don’t wait for that as some kind of proof or indicator for action.
Please protect your daughter and don’t allow any physical contact with your father. He is festooned in red flags.

My dh is expecting a granddaughter and I can imagine him being overly affectionate with her as you describe as he’s a tactile person from a tactile family.

Having said that if your gut is warning you then you have to listen and be on high alert. Don’t give him any reason to think you’re onto him.

🚩🚩🚩

Your gut is telling you something. I am still troubled by my childhood memories of my 'uncle' having me sit on the sofa next to him with my legs across his lap, running his fingers up and down between my knees and ankles. As I got older, inappropriate comments and tickling, and then pinning me down on the bed aged 14. STOP IT NOW.

You’re right to be concerned, your instincts are there for a reason as other posters have said.

Your first and only priority, as I’m sure you know, has to be to protect her now. The NSPCC has some great resources and a helpline you can call (https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/child-sexual-exploitation/).

You’re doing the right thing questioning it. Xx

I just want to say your post gave me hope, you felt something was wrong and immediately spoke up, this is how I hope my daughters will grow up. So, thanks for pressing send!

But this is how grooming works, by normalising the weird, by making it hard to speak up. You don't sound very kind, particularly as there are clearly deep seated dynamics here.

Nope, she has the right to get off his lap, he has no right to pull her back.

And the foot rubbing is also wrong - he's getting her used to him touching her.

How do you deal with it? You need to find the words and use them. He won't like it, and he will complain, but your daughter needs to understand that she can choose how much physical contact she has with someone.

He also needs to know that you're onto him. Look up David Finkelhor on youtube - he talks about how you have to put the equivalent of a sign on your lawn saying This House is Being Watched but for your daughter. So don't leave them alone, don't let him pull her back and watch him like a hawk.

he'll work it out.

She doesn't sound like a 'brilliant mum' at all. And what about the girl's dad? If the mum is scared or her own father and is unable to confront him, what was the dad doing?

Your young child was squirming on your father's lap for AN HOUR, was given foot massages with all the 'stroking' comments and you both did what? Sat there like two lemons?

Wtf. Do better. Defent your child. She's a 100% entitled to say no to unwanted hugs, cuddles, etc. But she's too young to get herself out of these situations, so you're the ones who have to do it for her.

And yes, you father is obviously creepy. No one with no ulterior motive wants anyone to sit on their knee for an hour. For a simple reason - it's just not comfortable. I wouldn't keep my own DD on my lap for an hour, because 1) why would I, 2) my leg would go numb.

Tryust your instincts OP. Even if he has no sexual intentions, he is not respecting her boundaries and bodily autonomy, which is harmful to any child and more so to girls, who will have to defend them someday.

He should not be pulling her back into his lap when she wants to get off. Even if there were something he needs to keep her away from, that doesn't require sitting in lap.

I recently spent a horrible train jorney opposite a father who was treating his ca. 3 year old daughter like this. Constantly had his fat arms around her, demanding cuddles while she squirmed and pushed against his arms. When she started to slap his arm in frustration, he squeezed her harder while waffling at her about no slapping.

He wasn't talking quietly, either. It was abusive behaviour in plain sight of a crowded train and all I could do was offer distraction and point out that she might be calmer if he let her sit by herself (she had her own seat). Nobody else said anything. You can do better for your daughter.