May we still crush the Patriarchy?

Zombie post

Wtaf are you talking about? 😁

I absolutely agree with you here, but your initial post, i think is hard to understand. I had to reread it a few times and it only makes any sense in the context of your later posts

Wow, that really isn’t what you articulating at all.

I think the Gareth Southgate speech excellent. I really don’t think there is anything to be snidey about what he said.

Yes, my primary concern is totally whether I can make feminism appear non-threatening to men who don’t like their privilege being eroded.

It feels like you’ve had enough internet for today.

who is pushing back?
only the OP and not very coherently
most of us are supportive of what you describe

Dear god what am I reading.

Finding good male role models for men that can teach them that women are people not possessions, that teach them they can be masculine without being a dick head and they can understand their masculinity and their femininity. That teaches them to understand the years of condescension, belittlement, under expectation, violence and abuse that women have faced? That teaches them to cross the street so not to intimidate accidentally, to step in when their “friends” are dicks.

if we can fix this with fixing boys before they become toxic men then women will be infinitely better off.

we bang on and on on Mumsnet about toxic men stopping toxic men what can we do to stop the violence, the sexual assaults etc but when a solution is put to us we of course have to push back because it’s not woman centric it’s not feminist centric when actually curing this issue is a feminist goal. Never mind that we might stop losing our sons and daughters.

damed if we do, damed if we don’t.

eh?
men who feel threatened by feminism are very low down on my list of priorities
we need to focus on the boys and men who understand...or who could understand with help- that smashing the patriarchy is good for them too
actually no it's not us who need tofocus on those boys and men, its men, like GS

(disclaimer- I have not heard the lecture only reports of it)

I understand you perfectly, OP. And yes, it still needs smashing.

I understand what you’re saying OP - there is a real problem with men and boys thinking that feminism is a personal attack on them. Smashing the patriarchy would benefit both men and women - but how do we do it in a way that doesn’t feel like a personal attack? Similarly, how much should we care if men feel a bit upset when they’re the ones causing so many issues. I don’t particularly want to have to pander to incels to hope they don’t harm women and girls but we have to attack the root cause of misogyny.

Difficult to tell but I think the OP is trying far too hard to be amusing?

Probably anyway.

Who knows 😬

Helping these boys is smashing the patriarchy!

Men helping men be better is what feminists have been asking for, and is smashing the patriarchy.

Bringing up a generation of men who don’t plan violence towards women who fail to applaud them is smashing the patriarchy.

I’m happy to applaud men as they smash certain elements of the patriarchy, and carry on working for the bits I can do.

The idea that smashing the patriarchy would ultimately be good for men and their mental and physical wellbeing is very much established mainstream feminism.

Do you find any of this amusing? Because I don’t.

@InformEducateEntertain thanks, now I understand you 🙂

yes, this
if you think there's a conflict between feminism and promoting positive values to boys and men tells me you haven't really understood feminism
I haven't heard Gareth Southgates lecture but I understand he is advocating for men to take some responsibility for tackling toxic masculinity (as opposed to blaming women/mothers for the state of the world and expecting us to make everything better)- to he is an ally in my book

@InformEducateEntertain "Feels like pretty un PC to say it though"

why? Have you been chatting with handmaidens?

I still haven't fathomed the reference to Gareth Southgate. Maybe I need some glue or whiskey, then I'd get it? 😅

The patriarchy isn't men.
Looking after our young men, ensuring they are happy, healthy and free to hug each other is part of smashing the patriarchy.

I don’t understand why we can’t simultaneously make the world better for both sexes, personally.
Men with better role models will make better choices which impacts women positively.