Middle class men are more likely to actively parent?

And possibly less financial stress?

I don't particularly like the 'working class' and "middle class' terms as mean different to different people.

But I have observed at our primary that the only children with Dads doing pick ups and drop offs seem to be the ones where both parents work in professional roles - ones likely to need a degree - nurses, teachers, drs, physios, lawyers, surveyors etc. Those with one or both parents in jobs which don't require a degree, in vast majority of cases its the mum doing all pick ups and drop off, in some cases this is because they are single mums where the Dads see at weekends or not at all.

I'm thinking it's because these roles allow a proportion of working from home which gives more flexibility, but I think thete us also an attitude element to this. When I was saying how long my commute is, one if the mums (teaching assistant) responded with a horrified 'your husband doesn't earn enough for you not to work', my husband would never force me to work, in our house he works for money and I work for fun.

I’ve notice completely the opposite.

From my experience those on a council estate are less likely to have such extreme gender stereotypes and both sexes will e.g. take the bins out, change a tyre, cut the grass etc as well as be a hands on parent.

Whereas I’ve noticed with middle and upper class, the stereotypes are much stricter.
With men having the ‘important’ job and the mum staying home and cooking and cleaning etc. Even if she has a good job herself, I’ve noticed there are still stereotypes.

I’ve noticed many times on these threads where the DH will go out for drinks after work or spend hours on the weekend with a hobby like golfing or cycling and the woman is left as the default parent. And there are posters who will say it’s their DHs job to take the bins out etc whilst it’s their job to do laundry and this carries on with the parenting.

Perhaps this is more of a SAHP thing rather than a class thing but again you’re more likely to be a SAHP if you’re middle or upper class so it’s difficult to distinguish.

I think it’s more about having decent role models - My Dad was an active Dad and his Dad was also (talking about the 1950/1960)

My husband parents separated but before they divorced his Dad was also active parent he picked up my husband from school his shift pattern allowed it. When they separated his Dad still did the caring even when he remarried his step Mum wasn’t the default carer his Dad did the parenting when he stayed over.

My husband is also a hands on Dad - class is irrelevant.

I think working class might traditionally see cooking and cleaning as more "women's work", but childcare and parenting isn't necessarily included in that. If a man enjoys being a parent and wants to be involved with his children then he will be, regardless of class.

Sure I saw a study backing this up - higher educated people are less likely to subscribe to stereotypical gender norms so yeah probably true generally speaking.

Won't be true of everyone of course but on average yes.

Good observation. 👍

Interesting. The middle class men I know are heavily involved. Even more so in cases like mine where we both work. Whilst it is clearly a good thing, there are some amusing examples of performance parenting where the middle class dad in Lycra will hold court at social events telling everybody about just how involved he is.

My DH grew up on a council estate as is the most amazing husband and Dad in my eyes. He idolises our DD and loves to spend 1 on 1 time with her. Every weekend, I get a lay in, breakfast cooked for me and a few hours to myself in the afternoon whilst DH takes DD swimming, to the park or another activity. He runs me baths, gets home from 12 hour days (runs his own business in a trade) and cooks dinner a couple of times a week, takes turns doing bath time with DD if he’s home in time, always has time to read her a story. My Dad also grew up on a council estate in London in the 60s and has always been a very present and loving Father. My Stepmum is a Nanny to a middle class family (30 years experience around the same middle class friendship group/recommendations etc) and makes it no secret of the fact that the Dad’s she’s worked with see their kids for a few hours at the weekend because they are working, at golf/tennis/meals out. That being said, I don’t think class dictates what kind of parent you’ll be.

I think there’s probably a lot of truth to this.

And the point about working class matriarchal mothers also.

In my very MC area the dads are generally very involved and hands on parents. Loads of dads at school drop off and pick up, parties and activities. More mums, but then the major of dads work full time and mums part time. However, a decent amount of dads have reduced or flexed hours to some degree. I agree a lot of MC dads tend to have wfh jobs where it’s easier to be more present than someone doing 12 hour factory shifts or long days on a building site for example.

I actually think that in general gender roles are more deeply entrenched in both working class and upper class families and the middle class are much more equal in their working and parenting roles.

A lack of money pushes working class parents into old fashioned gender roles because money buys freedom. Then at the other end of the spectrum upper class parents with lots of money are so free that women don't need to work at all if they don't want to and this tends to bring out traditional gender roles as women can choose to be SAHMs then ladies of leisure once the children go to school. Middle class parents have enough money to buy freedom through child care and extra curricular activities but not enough money to nope out of work completely so end up 50/50 workload split where both parents work and parent equally.

This is what I have observed anyway.

I think it is true to an extent - not that it is true 100% of the time of course but there is a correlation

I think some of it is because middle class men are more likely to have careers where they can be more flexible, WFH etc, rather than shift work

And also the matriarchal mother phenomenon too - many working class women seem to have a relationship with their mum where she steps in and does the second parent role more than the dad does

I disagree, I think a lot of MC men have their ‘big’ jobs and important hobbies (cycling).

I can’t talk about everyone. But in my generation (I’m a millennial) men in general are more hands on than my father’s generation were. DH is hands on, my brother is hands on.

Just based on observations of people I know

Oh that was worth telling us about 🤣🤣

I think people saying your statement is snob or class is irrelevant, have not been on both sides for long. I have and, with exceptions of course, you’re 100% right, and it has f* all to do with free time, but with societal expectations. Again, generalising, but it’s how it mostly works in my experience

This. You can have fantastic working class parents - I've come across 100s. Engaged, supportive, valuing education. Some middle class ones lazy and entitled.
It's the individual, not their socio economic situation.

It starts at pregnancy . Working class couples often have very matriarchal mother in the mix. They takes the fathers spot at some of the scans. They are there at the labour often pushing the father out of the way. They are there all the time in the early days of baby being born taking over. It’s not a good start for the dads who are pushed out of the way. No wonder they are less hands on.

The best thing that ever happened to us as a family was my having a terrible labour and being limited in what I could do in the aftermath and my mother being ill in the first couple of weeks of our first borns life. My DH had to do everything. He Probably would have been hands on anyway but it did set the tone for the future.

I m in Ireland, we all parent, all that procreation!!! . We are less class obsessed, all these divides don't exist as much. However the people in more deprived areas with less formal education, it seems to me, everyone pulls their weight parenting wise, and at least to the same extent as middle class parents who work in professional roles.

Present and absent parents in every walk of life.

I think that's complete bollocks.

There are very hands on men from all classes and men who are absolute shirkers from all classes. Someone's class is no indicator whatsoever of whether they are a reliable, committed and hands-on parent.

What is true is that a a more educated man is probably more exposed to progressive parenting theories than one who hasn't been to university. And that a certain sort of middle class progressive man positions himself more as being a "new dad" because it plays better with the social mores of his social group. Whether or not he actually walks the walk as well as he talks the talk no one other than his spouse will know.

I've known a lot of very middle class men with impeccable progressive credentials who bang on about feminism and sharing domestic roles etc and several of them have fecked off when their heads were turned or found "creative projects" that take them away from home for weeks.

That's not to say all middle class men are shit dads, some are wonderful parents. But don't judge a book by its cover.

I disagree

MC men may be more career focused and think that paying a wife to SAH absolves them of parenting duties.

Also they may be more likely to think that paying for cleaners, Nannies etc absolves them of more parenting duties.

I suspect that growing up with dads who did their fair share makes men more likely to emulate that behaviour and there’s no class divide with that.

It is possible that MC women are more likely to tell prospective partners that they will continue their careers post kids and therefore the dad will have to do stuff like the nursery run where as WC mums are more likely to work around their partner and go part time

It is probably true that in middle class professions there is more autonomy and scope for flexible working. It is very common for my male colleagues to schedule their working day around their childcare, in the same way I do. Family in more working class industries have zero flexibility.

Rubbish

I live in a very working class area (a huge council estate) and it's unusual to see men taking their children out alone without mum present. Whereas, when I'm shopping in a nearby middle class area it's quite normal to see men on their own with babies strapped to them and a toddler or two in tow.