Middle class men are more likely to actively parent?

Ok, I’ll bite:

my DP had 3 kids already when I met him. He had them 50:50 and was a great dad, but when with his ex she didn’t want to work (literally never has worked full time as she had their first child whilst a uni student when they were both young). As a working class dad he was expected to go to work at 7am get back at 6 and she could stay home. He hated it and so went to university, got out of the manual labour trade he was in and was able to see the kids more and be more like a middle class dad because he could work from home and be present in their lives.

another take on it is is that having met me (I’m certainly middle class though definitely not upper) he has taken on a lot more middle class style parenting. I certainly think there’s some truth in that but I actually think my DP was always a doting father, he just wasn’t able to be the middle class dad taking the kids everywhere whilst he was on crappy working class wages and out the whole day (and sometimes weekends) trying to earn enough for the whole family. Plus his ex had the working class expectation that all he really provided was money and that she was the only parent who actually mattered or should have a say in things. Essentially, I think there’s expectation that dads don’t do much was hers rather than what he wanted. Now they’re separated he loves the time with his children and is a fully committed dad to our DS too and we regularly have his eldest for more than 50% of the time, so no it’s not just 50% of the time that he steps up, it’s all of the time.

My husband is working class and a very hands on dad, so was my dad, and his dad, and our grandads. So no I don't agree with you. I think it depends entirely on the man and the examples they were shown growing up by the men in their lives.

I come from a working class background but most of my friends now are middle class. I don’t think it’s class or modelled behaviour, I think it’s values and the circles you move in.

My cousins and my cousins husbands are very present hands on dads, none of us had dads like that but we want better for our kids and we have strong family values. Equally I’ve got plenty of middle class friends whose husbands do very little.

My husband (similar background) and I plan to share parental leave and have already set up our flexible working ready. He’s excited to be a dad, if he wasn’t like that I wouldn’t have married him. None of my friends have similar arrangements and they think it’s wild, my family think it’s a no brainer he’d want to spend as much time as possible with his child when they’re here.

what a load of stereotypical bullshit

I think maybe WC mums are more likely to find that work doesn't pay so stay at home which means gender roles become more entrenched?

We live in a MC village and my children all had sports activities at the weekends. I would say it was very much the WC Dads who were running the football club,organising tournaments and it was generally the Dads from both backgrounds cheering their children along at matches etc .
I really don’t think you can generalise. Obviously Dads who have flexible jobs,wfh are more likely to drop children off at school and attend sports day etc.

I think also linked to that, subconsciously knowing your wife earns enough that she doesn't need you probably makes husbands realise they need to pull their weight

I mean surely that's self selecting because a single parent is living off one income so way less likely to live near a upper class school (presumably Surrounded by expensive houses) for purely financial reasons.

Middle-class men are more likely to have middle-class wives who have nice middle-class professional jobs and the family's nice middle-class lifestyle depends on her keeping that job so the husband has to pull his weight more.

That's less the case for lower-earning women for whom childcare would be more than their whole pay.

More anecdotal evidence, but I've taught in very middle/upper middle class schools and also working class - I met MANY more dads at parents' meetings in the middle class schools and know that a huge proportion of children in the working class ones barely knew theirs.

These were the sorts of working class areas in which is was common for parents to not actually though.

Someone on Mumsnet please tell me what class my baby daddy is? Works a relatively well paid office job but we had our first child at 16 which is ghetto behaviour right?

He's a good dad either way

I don’t think class has got anything to do with it.

@TempestTost

I agree with your analysis but would also add that MC couples are more likely to have moved for work and so not have family support filling in the gaps.

Entirely down to the individual not their “class”.

My dad’s working class, very present, his dad was working class and was very much a “it’s a woman’s job” to raise the kids. My husband is working class and is very present and hands on, his dad who was the same age as mine was working class and he was absent for all his kids. 50/50 on what kind of man you have kids with.

I live in a WC area and there are loads of very involved dads - lots of shift work including night shifts specifically chosen to share childcare. I also think it might be due to couples on average meeting and settling down younger in more WC areas - putting everything "in the pot" (money, time, resources) to build an empire together.

However there are also lots of single mums doing it completely on their own with no support whatsoever - I agree with the poster above who said the matriarchal grandmother often takes on a kind-of co-parent role in that case.

Not convinced. I secretly suspect that middle class men are good at playing the ole and talking about what they are doing but actually being there and stepping up - I’m not so sure.

Definitely this. My Dad was very involved when home. Couldn't do pick ups etc to school as worked long hours as an architect, but was very involved when home. Doing alternate night's when we were babies, he took us out swimming and for ice cream etc Saturday mornings so my mum got a lie in and a relax, same on Sundays - despite him being up at 6am every morning to be on a 6.45 train down to London - so he never got a lie in. Did all the washing up when home etc. He insisted that her role as a SAHM was much harder than his, he showed her such respect. So when I married I looked for a man who viewed me ad his equal and would take an active role in parenting.

But the opposite can also be true. My very involved DH grew up with a Dad who was a builder who proudly boasted he never ever changed a nappy. DH was determined to do different. Sane for my Dad who grew up with a Dad who was mechanic.

I'd like to see the data on this. I don't think it's as simple as social class and there are lots of other factors. My DH from a working class background had very strong role models for hands on fatherhood. His ex-miner uncle did the childcare for his GCs for example. DH has a senior 'middle class' job but is very present and children come first. He has no respect for men who put their hobbies ahead of their family time.

Obviously if you need to work all hours to make rent and have a blue collar job where you don't control your workload then you're going to have less flexibility than if you have a management job where you can work from home for example.

My dad was very much working class. Raised by a single mum on a low income, young dad himself, he was an amazing hands on dad. He worked shifts so always did school pick up and cooked for us after school. I don’t remember him doing laundry but he did most of the cleaning and hoovering.

I know plenty of middle class men who fucked off leaving family number 1 to make a new, shiny n family with very little regard of the first.

So no not my experience.

I think this is true to some extent, obviously it's a generalization.

Although - it might be that we could reframe it, and say that in middle class households, more women take on a male pattern of working and paying for daily childcare, and then both mother and father take a turn at off-hours childcare.

Whereas in wc households I think it's been more common for women to take a break from paid employment when kids are younger, as the wages don't cover childcare as well, and also in some cases they may see work more as a means to an end rather than a career and be very happy to see being a SAHM as a calling, at least for a few years.

There also could be something of a skills differernce. Among MC people, a lot of the jobs are pretty evenly divided among the sexes, and they may be more likely to also pay for other household work like repairs or yard work. Leaving both to manage cleaning and children.

It's not unusual in wc homes to see the employment as more divided by sex as well - women in more traditionally female jobs (care work, including childcare, shop assistants, cleaners, secretarial,) and men are more likely to be in trades. And you see the same division of labour at home - the mother may well be managing the finances, cleaning, household admin, and childcare, while the father takes care of household repairs, yard maintenance, can care, and other heavy jobs.

This. My own dad, solicitor and a very hands on dad and definitely pulled his weight in the home. My ex, working class to the core. Shit partner and even worse father, deadbeat to the core

Not in my immediate experience, no. But I'm Gen X, and in my view we have a lot of talk but not the walk when it comes to equality of the sexes.

I think you are conflating working class and rough people. My dad was working class, he went to the pub every single day so any outings had to be curtailed ie you couldn’t be out all day as he had to get back for the pub. So his child rearing must have been limited My husband I assume is still working class, retired police inspector doesn’t go out like that so much more available and did school pick ups drop offs etc. my dad did it sometimes but always reeked of beer as he’d been to the pub at lunchtime.

Hmm… I’m on the fence. At our MC school there are the occasional dads there, often with the mum who are very involved in the school and other parents. Not often they are there on their own though.
About 10 mins down the road where I pass for work, I was surprised to see a large number of dads doing the school run. I don’t like to judge but I’d guess they are unemployed, with about 4 kids in tow. I even saw one with a can in his hand 🥴 nonetheless, they were doing the pick-up so therefore involved and present

This