Middle class men are more likely to actively parent?

Overall I agree OP. I am a nurse and see people from all walks of life. I’d say it’s much more common for men appearing middle class (in their behaviour, dress, when chatting about work etc) to bring their children in to be seen for sickness, vaccinations, asthma check etc. Much less common for working class men to bring their kids in independently, may well be as they’re working which is fair enough!

I am not convinced- I think when most MC people have children they are in their 30s and still establishing their career and so flexibility is hard. Young children and establishing a career was tough, brutal - there were some days we were so sleep deprived that we just couldn’t go into work as we would have been a risk.

However, I don’t think fathers actively parenting is a class issue.

I don't think it's necessarily more time so much as more flexibility - DH and I both work a lot of hours but we can both usually arrange our diaries to attend school events, parents evenings etc.

Also the money to outsource things - e.g. cleaning, gardening, DIY - frees up time

I disagree. Mumsnet is full of women with husbands with important jobs that have them out the house for 12 hours a day and home after the kids are in bed.
My son plays grassroots football and it's full of working class dads giving up their time to coach and train the boys. Not a middle class man in sight.

Same I still haven't worked out what class we are, I'm missing out on all these great Mumsnet debates 😩 he's got a well paid office job but we had our first child at 16 so surely belong to the ghetto 😂

My observations, for what they’re worth:
Upper class dads completely detached from their children. Mothers also weirdly detached. Kids often board from under 10.

Middle class dads and working class - haven’t noticed a great deal of difference. Most aren’t as hands on as they (or some of their partners) claim they are.

Most men IME are not particularly hands on dads and are very happy to allow their dc mothers to be the default parent. I know one man who I would say was an excellent dad, and was equally the default parent, but once his child was 15 he decided he’d had enough of being a parent, gave his wife an ultimatum (focus on meee not the child) and left.

Yeah and I bed dads are more up for playing after just being at a computer or sat in meetings, vs if they'd been down a coal mine all day they'd be more tired

You seem to be talking about people who are a bit more on the margins than just working class though.

Working class covers a wide range of jobs. It seems possible that the people you were talking to could have had a horrible experience at school or with people in authority generally.

My DH is quite MC, works very long hours in the City and doesn't really see the kids at all in the week. He's loving and plays games etc on the weekend but my own Ddad (WC) was around more so went swimming after school/work etc. My GPs were quite poor so my grandma would work in the evenings and grandad would cook dinner/do homework etc as he was on solo duty.

I do also think DH outsources things as money isnt an issue so he'll take them out to eat or get takeaway if i go out for dinner vs cooking for them.

My Dad was working class and left nearly everything parent related to mum, but having said that it worked well and I had a happy childhood. Mum worked part time as a partner in my dad's self employed business. My DH was also brought up working class, though we are now middle class. I went part time and did nearly everything parenting related. Again, I think it's worked well, though I suppose you'd have to ask my kids if they agree. I think DH and I put in equal effort, just on different things, he works and earns and does a few DC related things at weekends / holidays. I work but fewer hours and parent every day. There is mutual respect between us for what we both contribute, I think that's important.

I think it is reasonably true on balance but obv not a general rule. I have a lot of contacts across classes as we live/go to school in a mixed area but my work environment is exclusively middle class. Among my middle class contacts the woman is just as likely to be the main breadwinner as the man, and from what I know childcare/housework is usually either shared or skewed towards the lower earner regardless of sex. I don’t know anyone among more working class/lower paid contacts where this is the case, the women who do work full time tend to complain a lot about having to do all of the childcare/housework alongside their jobs. Anecdotal though so may not mean anything.

I'm not sure what class my husband would be seen as but he was a very hands on father. His father was middle class and wasn't really. To be honest I have known middle class fathers to be hands-off and working class ones very hands on.

I disagree. I know wonderful and awful dads from
both backgrounds. I know many working class men who are extremely active parents and many middle class men who much prefer to work late, golf or cycle than care for their own children leaving it solely to their wives.

Depends on the dad I guess 🤷🏻‍♀️

When I was little (up until around the time I started secondary school), my dad had a manual labour job where he worked shifts and every out of overtime god sent…..simply because he had to make ends meet. We didn’t see all that much of him day to day, but when he was around he got stuck in and was a very hands-on, present father.
To this day, I’d say I’m closer to my dad than my mum.

When I used to do the school run we seemed to have Dads with both Working & Middle Class jobs.

I had my last two in my late 40's but at Canoe Club there were a few Dads with kids the same age as mine who were entitled to call me 'Sonny' and mums of similar vintage to me.

The working from home is not so relevant as it’s a new post Covid phenomenon whereas the change in fathers’ roles to be more hands on with parenting pre-dates this by quite some time.

Disagree that middle class have more time. Time depends on the job you have (if you have one whether mc or wc), the hours yours work, what you chose to prioritise etc.

I disagree.

My two sons are tradesmen and they are fantastic Dads, very involved with their children.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0955369533/

^ this

Stereotypes are just generalizations, which is to say, statistical statements about patterns that apply to groups, rather than individuals.

Which is totally appropriate when discussing a group.

I would say that sexist gender roles were also much more present in the working class schools, unfortunately.

Dads aren't expected to stick around, but they could have several children with different women.

If they did work, it was manual.

Thought they were macho.

Lots of tattoos and grey tracksuit bottoms.

The women were much more likely to work in beautician or childcare jobs.

Dolled up with fake hair and nails etc, for parents' meetings. Constantly on phones.

I found a very defensive and sometimes hostile attitude from those parents, even when giving their child a glowing report.

There was a study a few years ago, actually working class men did more, largely because they had fewer options, both parents were more likely to work, whereas in middle class families more often the father increased his work hours and pay after having children and mothers reduced there’s to pick up the slack. Grandmothers were more likely to do childcare regularly than fathers. The conclusion was that men tended to do as little as they could.

Yes, that is true as well I suspect.

In my region, it's quite common for working class men to work away from home for long periods. Historically a lot went to sea, but also lumber camp work and the military - some still do these jobs. More recently men traveled for trades jobs to areas of higher growth, though not as much now, and currently many work at large mines or with oil extraction in the North.

Mums, grandmothers, and aunts have in the past tended to hold down the fort, though in modern times I see a lot of grandfathers doing it too - some of whom worked away when their own kids were small. My father and my husband both worked away, my husband for about six months of the year, and when I was young my father was at sea for nine months a year though that reduced to six later on.

That's absolutely going to impact patterns.

No idea but my own dad was very middle class, and he did sod all and f* off when I was a baby - no contact ever! My partner/baby dad is working class and very annoyingly does believe it’s the woman’s job (my mental and physical load is in tatters) despite being fantastic with dd and she adores him! I’m middle class and believe it should be a 50/50 partnership