To think that if you keep getting into toxic relationships, maybe you’re the common denominator?

The person doing the poking and the person reacting with violence are both abusive though

Yes. Of course you are right. Some women will find themselves constantly in relationships with abusers. Because theyve had experiences in childhood which normalise them along with a plethora of other reasons. Trauma is damaging for life if untreated. And treatment is expensive.

some women often find themselves with an abuser who they find less abusive than the less abuser so they thibk it is better.

this is why on mumsnet women in absuive relationships are always told to do the freedom programme and stay single until they have healed. Sadly, often they dont as they think lovebombing is a sign of love and not abuse.

I don’t agree actually. Often maybe, but some men seek out strong women and twist and break them.

Sometimes the dynamic is toxic, rather than the individuals. I’ve seen someone poke and poke and poke to get a reaction, as they didn’t have other strategies to seek attention. I’ve seen people lash out because they have no other strategy to deal with someone provoking them.

People with badly matched strategies are a bin fire.

I do think there are strong women & vulnerable women and I think abusive men or those with narcissistic traits are able to spot the ones they want (the vulnerable ones). The vulnerable ones are typically low self esteem and tend to get with abusive men ime.

Its hardly an uncommon theory!
In fact its what my dad used to say to my mum before hitting her. "See, you made hit you, and now you make me do it too!
Its why women stay. They get told its them and they believe it.

I think the key part of that posters comment was the <should>

I do think people sometimes forget that when people change in life it’s not always for the better. I think some folk want to believe that abusers always come with red flags from the start, because the alternative - that your kind, loving partner could one day turn into a monster - is truly terrifying.

How long were you together before the change?

It works both ways- some people have radars for vulnerable people and some people are attracted to toxic people. I don’t want to victim blame but it’s definitely worth doing something like the Freedom Programme if you find yourself in that pattern so that you can learn about yourself and what to look out for in future.

No, perhaps the person has vulnerabilities that lead them to attract the same predatory type over and over

Yes, that may be true.
If you are someone with low self esteem, someone vulnerable, with past trauma for example, abusive people may well be able to spot you a mile off and exploit your vulnerability. Because they are foul people who enjoy doing that.

I tend to agree with this. I do believe there are some exceptions and maybe there are just some really unlucky naive people in the world.

I watched my mum go through 3 violent relationships. The first two I was quite young so didn’t understand but by the third, I watched her provoke and press their buttons until they snapped. I don’t think she was always in the wrong (and at the end of the day she did suffer a lot) but she definitely contributed.

You are being very naive @ByMauveLion

It is far more complex that you are trying to suggest.

Narcissists can spot vulnerable people, it isn’t the vulnerable persons fault.

Of course - but that’s not take away from the fact that people shouldn’t abuse?

I thought it was very commonly know that people tend to get into toxic relationships due to childhood trauma / early experiences - which then are mirrored / played out in their current relationships - whether sexual ones or platonic.
We recreate our wounds so we can learn and heal from them, it’s just some people don’t do that.

Some people are codependents and if they dint learn their leason they will always gravitate back to the same type.
Great videos on this by Alan Botton on Youtube.

I don’t think it’s that simple.

Yes you’re right in the sense that if it keeps happening to you, you haven’t learned to recognise the tell-tale flags abusive people giveaway until you’re too far in to extricate yourself easily. However, that makes someone ‘guilty’ of nothing more than leaving themselves vulnerable.

Often that vulnerability is a product of childhood trauma/norms that actively makes it much more difficult for them (as opposed to those in healthy relationships) to recognise red flags or learn how to ‘target harden’ themselves. Furthermore, some abusive types are extremely good at hiding their true colours for a long time while they skilfully groom their victims. And in addition to that, society reinforces messages that normalise abusive behaviour (consider the rom coms where someone effectively stalks the love interest and they all live happily after) and encourages people to put up with it (talking about broken homes, etc, little support for people fleeing DV).

Ultimately, vulnerability isn’t a crime. Abuse is. Let’s lay the blame where it belongs. However, you’re right that it would massively benefit current and future victims if we had a large scale educational campaign about what abuse looks like. Trouble is, an awful lot of people really don’t want that to happen.

I think women who were raised to tolerate abuse tend to tolerate it as adults. Women who get stuck in abusive relationships tend to have low self-esteem. The shame is still with those who take advantage of that, of course. I think it’s important to remember that.

Do you have any thoughts on abusers and their behaviour @ByMauveLion ?

People have some agency in who they are drawn to. It isn’t all about abusers picking vulnerable people. Some people gravitate towards a certain type of person because it’s all they’ve known. Sometimes they aren’t even aware they are drawn to certain types. Some people always go for the bad boy type.

Nah. I've been married twice. Waited a LONG time before the second, because I was so hyper aware of the dangers.

Frankly, it was the absolute best relationship in the world until it wasn't. I struggle still to reconcile the abuser he became with the wonderful man I married. And that's with my eyes wide open.

(I won't be married thrice.)

Abusers identify vulnerable people and are super nice to them to begin with. Once they have reeled the new partner in, their behaviour starts to change. It takes a lot of work, insight and self belief for a vulnerable person to see what is happening, and walk away.