To think we’re going to have to do more to support single mums

Weekend childcare is never going to happen (well unless you're in the nanny kind of tax bracket..) Outwith a repeat of WW2 or a sudden outbreak of communism I suppose.

I'm not a single parent but that doesn't mean I can't see the stigma and difficulty involved (if significantly reduced from a generation ago). People don't like to think it could happen to them so they kid themselves they wouldn't get into that situation. But there is always some luck involved, bad or good.

Weird. Really weird response. Married women are allowed not to work, or to work full time. They are called 'working families', even if in receipt of benefits.

Single parents are just a burden on society, no matter how harsh they work or how much they earn. Even when not entitled to benefits.

What would you like - spoon fed?

Some single mums will out earn a low paid couple.

Some single mums get caught in the benefits trap. Same with couples.

Many couples would benefit from more childcare options, inc later pickups and weekends.

But really do children benefit from that?
Or is that verging on cruel to be in school / wrap around, 9am - 9pm at night?
Mon-Fri and wrap around at the weekend? Effectively pushed into a 7 day week for primary aged kids?

The only thing that's reasonable is better access to social housing for all.

Ermmm...no but you didn't need to start in the first place as its unnecessary. Those people who lump every single parent in the same basket and claim they're everything under the sun are idiots (but they aren't on this thread, as posts have been clear about who is being written about).

The same goes for everyone who insist that those saying 'take responsibility for your actions' are all the same 'victim blamers' when it's obvious there are rational, reasonable distinctions made about feckless parents (married or single by the way) and non feckless parents (who can be married or single), not just about 'being a single parent'. It should go without saying that those who've done excellently for their kids regardless are not being talked about.

Realistically, no modern welfare system can operate on the basis of making value judgements about deserving or underdeserving parents. There are too many hard cases.

Better to focus on the rights of the children not to grow up in poverty.

Our birthrate is quite low so we shouldn't really be worrying about creating incentives to have children alone - I'm not sure there are many incentives to do that even if the system was more generous than now - but we should be attempting to ensure through the tax and benefit system that the children of a single parent aren't massively worse off than those where the parents are still together.

Because the children have no say in what the parents decide.

And there it is. You don't like what someone says so they're called bitter. LOL.

Jesus wept. You can't have a discussion without getting personal? Just because you think something another poster describes doesn’t happen, they're wrong? I mean my lived experience for the last 15 years as a single parent means nothing at all, does it?

My husband had life insurance, I still struggled, emotionally and financially. I was left with a baby to raise by myself.

Are you Jacob Rees-Mogg by any chance?

I don't know who you are associating with being treated like that but I have never come across anyone even on mumsnet calling a fulltime working single mum 'benefit scum'.

So you'll forgive me if I don't recognise the picture you paint but you sound very bitter

I think my story shows why properly supporting improves outcomes.

I became a single parent when my DC were 25 months and 2 months old. He disappeared in a poof of thin air overnight never to be seen again. They are 10 and 8 now.

I was able to get a 2 bedroom council flat for £400 a month rent. My very affordable rent and stable benefits meant I was able to complete an OU undergraduate course which I completed in 3 years. I then completed a Masters part-time.

It also turned out my DC had a disability so could not access childcare but her disability benefit and carers allowance combined with affordable rent meant I could afford the extra time at home.

I was able to, all before my youngest DC was 5, spend some time volunteering to build up my CV.

When my youngest started year 1 I interviewed for my first proper career job and got it. I still have a UC top up but it is far less because of my salary AND it is only because of having a "severely disabled child". Again, the top up means I can work slightly less than full time and not worry about wrap around care. Most importantly, I have a career with prospects. I know that as my children age I will be able to support myself financially independently.

The two big factors that made it so I could get to this position was a 1) secure, affordable rent 2) a benefit safety net. The state supported me for a few years but that will make me financially independent and not stuck on minium wage jobs. If we support single mums properly we can reduce the long term cost. My neighbours are the other end of the scale, their youngest has just turned 18 and mum doesn't work, dad in a minimum wage job. They are completely up a creek financially.

What?

are you seriously saying women wearing rings at work get preferential treatment?

take it up with HR. Or worst comes to the worst wear a ring.

i don’t have a ring. I’ve never noticed not getting the same treatment as my colleagues who do. We have single mums, single dads, married mums and married dads, I’ve never noticed a difference in treatment. If there were I’d support their grievance with HR. If anyone has childcare issues we all do our best to step in and cover, whatever their marital status.

Yep it's the same thing. [Confused]

There are 2 of you. There is one of me. But you want empathy and understanding when you can't make the childcare work. You think you deserve that. By contrast, I'm called benefit scum and told I'm a greedy, entitled bitch expecting the ex to pay maintenance and the state to pay benefits. And I'm still called all that when I work full time.

I think it depends on why the Mum is single. I also think that if people (men and women) choose to have children then the prime default should be that the kids are the responsibility of the parents. Only when that hasn't worked should the state get involved. And sadly, although not personally, I do recognise the multiple kids with multiple dads scenario.

I agree that some women, not most, but some have children to men they knew to be unsuitable fathers, however, there is nuance still.

For example, the two mothers I know who had children to unsuitable men, one had her mother walk out on her when she was three years old. When she was seven her stepmother decided she no longer wanted to be a stepmother so her father abandoned them to the care of their grandmother. When she was thirteen her grandmother died and her seventeen-year-old sister had to raise her.

She had kids with the first man who came along because all she ever wanted was someone who was hers and would not leave her.

My other friend became pregnant to a one-night stand two days after the unexpected death of her dad. She was drunk, grieving and just wanted comfort. She was too wrapped up in her grief to realise she hadn't had a period until it was too late to abort.

They're both great mums. Did they make the right choice? No. Could anyone blame them for the situation they found themselves in? Imo, no. And the children are definitely not to blame. At the end of the day it is the children who suffer most from the lack of support these women face.

But of course, you don't mean single mums like that, do you?

Are you kidding?! No we aren't 🙄

The bloody opposite is true, people assume you shouldn't be struggling because you have a husband to rely on!

My ex was fab. Until he wasn't. See, you judged me there because I have 3 kids. You assume he was shit from day 1 of parenting. He wasn't. That came at the point he had no use for me anymore.

No I don’t think the government should be doing more financially, but I do think that the fathers need to be held more accountable and that more needs to be done to ensure they pay maintenance.

Single parents are in fact fortunate in that maintenance isn’t taken into account when they claim UC which IMO it should be.

Also, what about women who are single parents through sperm donation? Should the government be doing more for them as well? After all being a single parent is literally a choice they have made, and shouldn’t be compared to a woman who has become a single parent by virtue of having lost her husband or having escaped an abusive relationship.

It's stupid short term thinking. HMRC are the same. Companies House are the same. DVLA are the same, etc. None can be bothered with what they call "the small stuff", but there's usually a pattern of behaviour, and someone involved in cash in hand tax evasion is almost certainly also defrauding benefits in some way and probably has no valid road tax or MOT on their car either, not to mention filing false company accounts to Companies House. The government needs to give all those agencies a kick up the arse and massively increase their resources as well as giving them more powers. There'll be a high up front cost but the returns in future years will be enormous.

No. This is not pressure on women. Women who work with a ring on their fingers are afforded empathy and understanding when they struggle to make it work. Single parents do not get the same courtesy.

ODFOD. Someone living alonecwith the responsibility for providing for children has every right to call themselves a single parent.

Loads of this is just expectations of women not specifically single mums.
Plenty of women out there feel the pressure to work full time manage all the childcare and travel and family admin and they are married.

And ultimately yes BOTH parties need to take responsibility for a shit situation - men for walking away and not taking responsibility, and women for desperately having a second, third child after the dad was shit with baby no. 1

Nah. Not always. Women absolutely have children with men they already know are lazy wankers/deadbeats/whatever.
It's ridiculous to pretend they were all good decent and kind and changed completely after a baby (so they have three!!)
A lot of people make terrible choices.

Anyway, the first thing to do is force men to pay for their children. Garnish wages, make it an offence punishable by prison not to pay. That would make a big difference.

I'm afraid, I think we need to make it less easy to be single mums.

Unpalatable as it is, it doesn't do anyone any good, not the mums, the children or society at large.

Obviously there are some people who end up in that situation through desperately sad circumstances, bit women do need to take responsibility and pick better father for their children.

It also need to be harder for men to walk away, but in many situations the women, having realised they have picked an unsuitable father, want him to go.

Like it or not, the single most important decision a woman will ever make is who will be the father of her children. Not being allowed to say/teach that is harming everyone.

yes, you're right. There is probably a lot of missing tax going undeclared in this type of situation. When I was asking CMS about what they could do to investigate my ex partner and his undeclared income and child support avoidance, they said that they didn't have the resources to do anything beyond a search of accounts that were declared to them. I guess anything more would be costly at the taxpayer's expense.

I agree. We need lots of new incentives to get organisations to transition into a more modern/flexible workplace.