To think we’re going to have to do more to support single mums

Should we also subsidise them to have kids on their own?

Tbf, we probably should given that the population (and therefore the number of taxpayers to support the elderly and retired) is rapidly declining to the point we are up shit creek, especially now we've pissed off all the foreign people who, for some unfathomable reason, wanted to come here and pay tax.

OP YABU if by 'do more' you mean taxpayers should pay more to help single mothers just by virtue of the fact they are single mothers. The system is already at breaking point and the lack of personal responsibility and accountability in this country is insane. Your view that we collectively help women so they can leave unhappy marriages for example- sorry but no, it's not my responsibility to subsidise you so you can leave the crappy partner you decided to have kids with without it impacting your lifestyle, career, kids etc. Regardless of how you became a single mother, it's really not the job of the state to ensure you and your kids have the same opportunities as what you perceive two parent families to have. Life isn't fair and sometimes it's obviously out of your control eg partner passing away, cheating on you etc but that's life and we already have a very generous benefits system. Some people don't ever end up having kids because they don't meet the right partner in time and wisely decide not to settle for someone who won't make a good dad. Should we also subsidise them to have kids on their own?

I think, and don't shoot me, that women can sometimes be their own worst enemy (and I include myself in this in some ways).

I'm a single mum, doing great (although knackered), and it's because I believed the fairytale, then my ex turned into a cheating, drug-taking tosser (warning to any woman with a partner who goes on TRT - it magnifies every fault.)

I'm doing OK because whilst I gave up a lot, I didn't entirely give up my work, and I had the kids late enough that I was established (and owned my own home before I met ex). And because even though I have almost sole care, I fought for decent maintenance, and don't interact with him at all beyond a shared calendar for visitation requests

My single mother friends who are doing less well, are the ones who had kids young, or who gave up work entirely, and especially those who still bend over backwards for their ex and let them get in their head, or who didn't fight for maintenance and shared custody - or all of the above because they snowball together.

I don't necessarily want more childcare - my kids only have one parent, and I want them to have as much of me as they can because of that. I would have appreciated a tax break maybe - the UK is unusual in not giving parents any tax break for having kids.

Edit - what I mean to say is, women are too nice. We give up too much, we need to put ourselves first more.

They kind of do this in Ireland, I’m taxed less as a single parent who rents.

I've said this before that income tax allowances should be per household rather than individually.
However older women shot me down saying that would be a return to the days of women not having a tax allowance.

It seems nuts to me that benefits are calculated on household income but tax and child benefit are individual.

There's also some that don't care or don't think about the future.
They are just in it for the sex, both the man and the woman.

Well said, but wait for the howls of anguish that women used to be taxed on their husbands etc. That was decades ago! Time to get over it. A modern tax system could tax households as a household, not on the husband as a husband/wife jointly. The benefit system is based on household income, and so should the tax system. It would get rid of a lot of problems and actually simplify things.

Then we need to do what Gordon Brown tried (and failed) to merge/link the tax and benefits systems so that both are based on the same dataset to reduce the duplication/triplication of effort in different govt departments.

The government needs to be brave to start to solve our societal and economic problems. Signs aren't good though as they don't seem to have a clue.

The tax system needs to change. Single adult households get hammered for tax and there's very little support. Tax per household income would be better.

I've always worked full-time. Losing the kid's dad did not change that. I've always studied too, again that didn't change after his death but it did get harder. Not only was I now fully responsible for all aspects of housekeeping, life admin, and child raising but I was dealing with grief and managing the grief of two teenaged girls.

I would never judge any parent who was unable to work harder or study more due to being single because it is fucking hard. Especially when you add in the trauma of grief or abuse.

And that is without even considering that society needs low earners to function properly. Those single mums/benefits scum/disabled part-time and low-income workers who are constantly looked down upon and shit on are our nurses, teaching assistants, carers, childminders, lollipop ladies, etc etc etc. They deserve a decent quality of life regardless of their will or ability to earn a degree or pass a certification.

Exactly this. It shouldn't be about arguing who pays for childcare. Childcare needs to be A LOT cheaper, more flexible and lots more of it. Only government action/support will enable that to happen. Along with that, we need a big push to get BOTH parents working, and part timers increasing their hours. That way the increased productivity and tax revenue will pay for the increased costs of improving childcare.

Yes, but you do sound more than a tad "Poor me, poor me...".
I get it to a certain degree as been treated quite poorly as a result of my struggles whilst being a single Mum.
But, that is not the same as being treated poorly because of being a single Mum.

Possibly one of the biggest issues is that nowadays women want to have a productive, interesting, fulfilling life that isn’t just bound up in raising children, which if done properly, is an achievement in itself, but I doubt for most is the be all and end all of actually being alive? Even with a supportive partner, shared parenting/home tasks, I am sure that some will want a bit more than just a 24/7 caring for baby day? I think these are the kind of questions that couples need to talk seriously about, and then work out a plan so that each member of this little unit gets what it needs. Baby/child gets full attention, physical requirements, moving into developmental requirements and stimulus, Dad gets to do his bit hopefully without too much criticism if a bit kack handed at first, Mum gets a bit of time away from the baby without stressing about things, then moving back towards going back to a paid role, or if agreed doing the SAHM role, but not as the only parent contributing. Personally, I wouldn’t have contemplated having a child and relying upon benefits other than child allowance and whatever free nursery payments there are, but I know some have to for one reason or another. Likewise, I would have made sure that I had secure, trusted backup with help so that I wouldn’t have felt torn apart by not being able to care for a child, but also wanting a life of my own. Different of course if something comes along and upsets the apple cart a few years in, but as a starting base it’s possibly best to get the plans in place first in terms of finances, help, shared parenting. I remember growing up (in a loving, stable, making do financially household) it being explained to me that having a child is a huge responsibility, a lifelong commitment, and to think carefully before committing to a serious relationship, what I wanted to do, what I wanted out of life, as mistakes aren’t an option in terms of children.

I'm another single mum who is currently mid online MA (part time), whilst working (full time). I was also working when I got pregnant and havent been out of work for more than one month since graduation unless you count mat leave. I've never been in reciept of any benefits. That doesn't make me better than anyone else, it's just the result of generational wealth. As us single mothers come from all walks of life plenty of us are not on any type of benefits. There's no one size fits all type of single mother, but there are generalisations, assumptions and stigma. Also plenty of single mothers complete further education online, it's very flexible and convenient.

Great answer. I hate it when people - especially women - try to gatekeep what is meant by a 'single' parent (especially when that they think is in contrast to to the dictionary AND accepted/everyday meaning).

Agree with this!

Yes I do realise it isn’t black and white. I was talking about the women who settle for men they know won’t step up before they have children.
if you read my post again, you will understand that. Baby view indeed 🤷‍♀️

There’s 5 of you in a similar position can you guys not organise between you for childcare? Or you all put in to pay 1 person to do pick up and drop offs?

shared housing so you can split rent mortgage on a larger house?

most of the single mums I know operate like this and act as support and villages to one another in this way. 5 people in the same position trying to do the same thing individually rather than teaming up is poor solution planning.

I don't think anyone is trying to say single Mums are 'helpless victims to horrible men'.

That's not really true, though is it, @Loadofbullox?!

I don’t know what can be done but as a single parent who works and has an ex who thinks his children aren’t really his responsibility it’s tricky. I don’t feel like I struggle financially but have to be careful. I rent privately if I had to find another home I would be struggling due to private landlords not accepting people on benefits, needing a guarantor, and some letting agents requesting a ridiculous amount of money up front. Maybe the answer for example is that eow childcare isn’t shared parenting and more responsibility needs to be encouraged for shared parenting but every situation is different.

I was refering to women who have no thought to how they are going to bring up their child. Not women who suddenly thrown into extremely challenging situation further down the line.

I have read a thread in Mumsnet of a university student who thought she could travel Europe and expect housing to be provided because of her baby. The father was a student and she thought he shouldn't have to provide.

Another women seemed to think it was her MIL's responsibility to provide accommodation food etc...